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Turning help


Paul456
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I'm a fairly new rider, got my A2 license (bloody European laws!) at the end of last summer and ridden a few hundred miles in total since then, not a lot i know. But now i'm doing more again and I want to make myself into a more confident rider before i'm 24 this summer so I feel confident to go out and buy a bigger bike.


My main concern right now is my cornering. I actually do wonder if this is a little to do with my bike (learned on a Hornet with decent tire size and felt pretty confident, then bought an ER5 with thinner tires and i have no confidence), but I don't want to give any excuses really and would rather admit i'm not very good and want help since i'm sure many people have similar bikes and are just fine.


Anyway, my problem seems to be medium-high speed cornering in bendy roads. I follow cars and try to use them as my guidance for my speed (i do drive, but since i drive fast on bendy roads not trying to match my driving speeds yet) and when they're driven by a little old lady (sorry for stereotyping :roll:) i can keep up just fine without thinking, but if its something faster then on some bends i'm fine but on some i end up letting go of the throttle to slow myself down else i feel myself drifting out and cannot stop myself for some reason.


I think a lot of it is down to confidence, but when i feel myself going wide i know i need to correct it and i know how (lean a little more, turn handlebars a little more) but can't force my body to do it for some reason and often make it worse by looking down instead of up so messing my balance up even more. I feel stupid for knowing what i'm doing wrong, but not being able to stop myself doing it. The corners i see myself doing this on tend to be at like 50-60mph ones on country roads.


Any tips or help would be greatly appreciated :D

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First off i wouldn't worry about the tyre size.

I used to have a YBR 125 until recently and got some pretty good lean angles and it was fine on 60mph roads and twisties.

See the image below for how thick the tyres are on that!

http://www.reviews66.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/yamaha-ybr-125-back-view.jpg


I think a lot of it comes down to confidence and practice, just get out there and you will naturally get better. Thats what happened to me and still does.


As i read somewhere on here, most of the time the riders skill will run out before you reach the limits of what a bike can do during a corner. So just get out and try to enjoy, Practice makes perfect.

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First off i wouldn't worry about the tyre size.

I used to have a YBR 125 until recently and got some pretty good lean angles and it was fine on 60mph roads and twisties.

See the image below for how thick the tyres are on that!


I think a lot of it comes down to confidence and practice, just get out there and you will naturally get better. Thats what happened to me and still does.


As i read somewhere on here, most of the time the riders skill will run out before you reach the limits of what a bike can do during a corner. So just get out and try to enjoy, Practice makes perfect.

I thought as much, i'm sure many people have thinner tires than me and are capable of more.


I did think that, and i've only ridden a few times since last summer so kind of out of practice. Maybe if i'm still this unstable by my birthday i'll be concerned. I guess i've got to stick at it for now. I think what concerned me was that i followed my dad to work the other day, him in his car and he pointed out that i was going slowly around corners like i really shouldn't be by now.


I've heard that too and know in my head its right, but then that makes me think my skill must suck which doesn't make me feel a whole lot better.

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I don't want to turn this into a countersteering thread, however do learn about positive input into the handlebars and how that influences how quickly you tip into the corners. riding in a straight line, touch the right handle bar and watch how the bike tips right and you head in that direction.


keep your shoulders loose, arms bent (leaning forward a little helps me to achieve this, even on a relatively upright bike). look through the corner. keep your throttle neutral (i.e. not backing off) or a little positive and look where you want the bike to go. you will naturally apply some countersteering and the bike will go round the corner. keep riding at a pace that's comfortable to YOU. don't be tempted to ride outside your ability. as your ability increases, you will ride faster.


If you want to find where your limit is, do it on a track where there's plenty of run off if you do find the limit. I've yet to do a track day, but then I'm mainly a commuter biker and not really in it for out and out speed.


If you don't seem to be getting any faster through those corners - slow down a bit and enjoy the british countryside. we're incredibly fortunate to have a varied landscape with some quite stunning wild life.

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The tyres on my GS are only very slightly bigger than yours - but the bike is probably double the size ++


It comes with practice fella.. Even though Ive had the same model bike since 1997 - its not unheard of for the 'flow' not to be right on some days. I don't worry about it. Its not a race - I have nothing to prove. And on those occasions when it all comes together and riding is a joy - more likely now with the weather improving. Well that more than makes up for my 'off' days.


stick with it.

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I don't want to turn this into a countersteering thread, however do learn about positive input into the handlebars and how that influences how quickly you tip into the corners. riding in a straight line, touch the right handle bar and watch how the bike tips right and you head in that direction.


keep your shoulders loose, arms bent (leaning forward a little helps me to achieve this, even on a relatively upright bike). look through the corner. keep your throttle neutral (i.e. not backing off) or a little positive and look where you want the bike to go. you will naturally apply some countersteering and the bike will go round the corner. keep riding at a pace that's comfortable to YOU. don't be tempted to ride outside your ability. as your ability increases, you will ride faster.


If you want to find where your limit is, do it on a track where there's plenty of run off if you do find the limit. I've yet to do a track day, but then I'm mainly a commuter biker and not really in it for out and out speed.


If you don't seem to be getting any faster through those corners - slow down a bit and enjoy the british countryside. we're incredibly fortunate to have a varied landscape with some quite stunning wild life.

 

I have tried to use countersteering and think i use it when going into corners, sometimes i notice it, although normally at smaller speeds. I didn't mention because i've seen its a controversial issue around here and i don't claim to know what i'm talking about :P


I will keep all of that in mind (about body positioning etc.) and its good to hear someone saying that it doesn't matter if i'm a little slow. I too only really commute right now and have the odd potter around the countryside (i'm lucky enough to live in the middle of no where with loads of fields and nice sights to see) and don't really care about speed, but then i don't want to be slowing people down and annoying other drivers either, i still feel like i should be capable of a respectable speed.


Thanks for that :D

 

The tyres on my GS are only very slightly bigger than yours - but the bike is probably double the size ++


It comes with practice fella.. Even though Ive had the same model bike since 1997 - its not unheard of for the 'flow' not to be right on some days. I don't worry about it. Its not a race - I have nothing to prove. And on those occasions when it all comes together and riding is a joy - more likely now with the weather improving. Well that more than makes up for my 'off' days.


stick with it.

Again good to hear it doesn't matter again, maybe since my dad rides like a lunatic at times he expects me to do so too. Thanks.

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Best tip I can give is to look where you want to go and, as the road starts to straighten out, accellerate gently. Keep this up and you will gain confidence which, in turn, will mean you will go faster (without really noticing).


Add to this the correct positioning before and during the turn and you are there!


:cheers:

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I have tried to use countersteering and think i use it when going into corners, sometimes i notice it, although normally at smaller speeds. I didn't mention because i've seen its a controversial issue around here and i don't claim to know what i'm talking about :P

 

It's not a controversial subject. countersteering happens whether you know about it or not. knowing about it means you can more positively affect it. Those that claim you steer by stomping on the pegs etc have probably never ridden a bike before.


you can very gently affect the path of a bike by pushing down on one peg, but get round a corner you will not!


Those that say you don't need to know about countersteering - ok, you maybe don't need to know there's a term for it and not knowing about it isn't going to harm your sunday bimble at 30mph though grassington. if you want to make a bit more progress, you will need to know about it!


have fun learning how to ride!

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It should be noted that bikes can't always take corners as quickly as a car can. Mainly because 4 tires vs 2 does mean a grip difference...


Defo look through the turn though. That does help more than you would think.

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Ill be honest the school you learnt to ride at should have covered countersteering if they were half decent.


Cast your mind back to your swerve avoidance.... you wouldnt have been able to do the sharp one way then next without it, so you have it in you. its confidence as already pointed out. Have yoy got anyone experienced you can ride with? I foumd it handy when I passed to follow a friend, who wasnt going balls out but keeping a steady pace who knew the roads and I kept saying to myself if he gets round at that speed so should I and within 10 mins I was finding that I already had a load more confidence with the twisties, worth a try I suppose or go do an advanced riding course that may help

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Best tip I can give is to look where you want to go

 

:stupid: This!


Don't focus on the number plate of the car in front of you. :mrgreen: Look ahead! Look as far around the bend as you can look, and position yourself in a way that allows you to look even further (if it's safe. Watch out for oncoming traffic or obstacles)

Once you manage that, your bike follows. Try it. You'll instantly realise the difference it makes. Suddenly everything feels more natural and easier, and it makes you relax!


Countersteering discussions turn quickly way too academic. Truth is, you already do countersteer without realising it. Otherwise you'd pretty much go straight lines all the time. That said, you can of course practise doing it. But main thing is really to look where you want to go, because that'll automatically make you steer your bike towards that point. (Which is why target fixation achieves the opposite, but that's a different subject)


The race track gurus will tell you something different, but for a newbie you want to be done with any braking before leaning into the bend if possible. During the bend you'll want to keep the throttle constant or give it some more as you progress through the bend. That keeps the line smooth and avoids that the bike wants to stand up. Once the corner opens, you can give it some more and dart out of the bend :mrgreen:

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Just remember "slow in, fast out"

So so do all your braking before the bend, and position yourself on the outside of the bend.

Enter the bend "slow", accelerate gently and smoothly all through the bend and exit the bend "fast".

If you need to tighten your line, push the inside bar away from you slightly.

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get yourself a decent riding handbook ( roadcraft is a good starting point) learn more about positioning for view, vanishing points , how to read the road etc.

forget about speed, that comes later ( and isn't the be all and end all anyway) safety and smoothness should be your aim , once you feel confident, capable , and feel you are cornering smoothly and safely, you will naturally go a little faster.

get your eyes up...look for the furthest vantage point , ( using both peripheral vision , and scanning to asses anything nearer ) , it does take practise, and so does overriding the natural survival instinct to roll off/.brake/change down... all things you don't want to be doing on a bike.

go in slower if you find you're panicking, and keep a positive throttle all the way through...powering out after the apex .

none of these things are inbuilt( unless you're one of the superbly awesome people who were brilliant from the minute they first sat on a bike).

take your time, go play on a road where you can learn the bends, and just work on being smooth while you build confidence and perfect some of the techniques.

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Best tip I can give is to look where you want to go

 

:stupid: This!

 

:stupid: x 2


and if you improve your road positioning - towards the right for left-handers, well over to the left for right-handers then you can see further around the bend and you'll find you can corner faster and smoother.


Almost certainly you are not looking far enough ahead - as you are cornering, keep your focus on the 'vanishing point' where the road seems to disappear. If you can see all the way round the bend in the first place then the chances are you don't need to slow anyway.


I'll freely admit that I'm not the fastest at cornering (considerably faster than the ubiquitous little old lady though - or old bloke in a hat if you want to even the stereotype score)- but I try to make sure that I'm smooth, get the right line etc.. and that, for me when its going well, is pure pleasure.


Also agree with the OP, we all have our off days, don't dwell on it, relax and move on :D

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im very new to biking too, and live in the countryside so have no choice but to tackle the small bendy roads. Ive just been concentrating on looking ahead, entering the corner at a speed that feels safe for me and accelerating on the way out, i find the more confident i am becoming the more i lean with the bike and gradually as a result am going faster, I dont worry too much about matching the speed of other cars, I'd rather be slow and safe than push myself and end up coming off. I'm sure its all just practice! but we will get there!

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im very new to biking too, and live in the countryside so have no choice but to tackle the small bendy roads. Ive just been concentrating on looking ahead, entering the corner at a speed that feels safe for me and accelerating on the way out, i find the more confident i am becoming the more i lean with the bike and gradually as a result am going faster, I dont worry too much about matching the speed of other cars, I'd rather be slow and safe than push myself and end up coming off. I'm sure its all just practice! but we will get there!

 

Absolutely. It's all about having fun, not about competing with others. It's a road after all, and we need to keep room for error (both ours and other people's), obstacles and unexpected hazards.


After such a long time without bikes, my tyres' chicken strips probably look more like chicken motorways for some time to come. :shock: I'm not bothered by lean angle discussions. Visibility (positioning) is more important than pushing the bike (and my safety) to or beyond its limits.

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Yep found that out turning into my road, blind corner behind a brick wall... so I was virtually at a stop in first gear and some mug had parked around the corner chatting on their bloody mobile!! Luckily I was going slowly or I would have gone straight into the back of her!! Never underestimate other drivers stupidity!

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  • 1 month later...

I know I'm quite late replying to my own help thread, but i want to thank everyone for their responses, I've tried most of the things in this thread and think i've gotten better, even my dad said so.


I've found that i need to relax (which simply going out on longer, tougher rides seems to have taught me to do), lean forward a little more, remember to keep my body loose and remember to look around the corner instead of at the road.


It seemed to come together after i went for a ride with my dad who deliberately picked a mixture of relatively easy roads with the odd harsh bend in them (like i say, where i live there is an abundance of country roads to pick from, which is really nice). At first i was my typical nervous self, but after the first 30 mins i felt myself getting more confident and rarely slowing down more than necessary, though still not as fast as my dad. By the end, about 1.5 hours later i was on a road i know well and did 60-70mph (sorry, i mean 60-66mph ;-)) all the way down it, which is roughly what i do in my car. I felt on top of the world quite frankly and i got that tingly feeling that first made me decide to buy a bike.


So i don't think i'm fully cured by any stretch, but with some of your guys tips i'm pretty sure that with experience i'll gain confidence which will improve this.

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I woukdnt reccomend trying to keep up with a car on bends, cars have 4 tyres and are very easy to take around a corner with minimal input. A bike how ever needs a lot of rider input. Best thing is pick a twisty bit of roaad that you know and try to up the pace gradually and keep stopping and checking your chicken strips as it will give you some idea of the Dr of the tyre your using and how much further you have to go. Countersteering is key but understanding how your bike is acting in the corner is more important. You need to roll the throttle on to keep the weight over the back wheel where you have more grip. There is a good video on YouTube called twist of the wrist 2. It's an hour n half long and cheesy but believe me there is some very very good info and demos in it

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