I don't use the back brake...

I use the front and back brakes in combination pretty much all the time - more front for stopping - mostly back in traffic - I have no idea whether its 80:20, 70:30 or whatever because I don't really think about it. Unfortunately you'll have to make a conscious decision to use the back to start with and then eventually it will become more intuitive

I also sometimes just touch the back if mostly engine braking e.g slowing into a 40 limit if there are cars behind just so the brake light shows (although there's also a debate whether engine braking is a good idea )

I like to avoid braking at all, given the chance

I also sometimes just touch the back if mostly engine braking e.g slowing into a 40 limit if there are cars behind just so the brake light shows (although there's also a debate whether engine braking is a good idea )

I do the same thing where I touch the front brake lever a few times, not enough to brake, just flutter the rear flight on/off.

Never brake using only the rear brake who the hell taught you that one?!! Take a look at a motorbikes or a cars braking system you will clearly see that the brakes at the front are far bigger and powerful than the one fitted to the rear and for a good reason. All down to basic physics. There's a good read here that you really need to get to grips with and quick! Any Muppet can make a bike go, stopping and turning it is a whole different ball game. Getting a bike to stop quickly and safely should be a number one priority.

http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle- ... g-tips.htm

I'm still confused, are brakes on smaller bikes more effective due to less weight? If I can ride using mostly back brake and stop in time by using both engine braking and rear brake I don't see the problem? Not trying to start a brake argument and I understand that the weight of the bike moves onto the front of the bike hence more stopping power but I just feel for me if I can anticipate when i need to stop I don't need the front brake unless for emergency or just a little bit of front to finish the stop and it results in a smoother stop with less 'diving' under soft suspension. I'll probably have to adapt when I get a heavier bike though.

Dont wait until you get another bike, start riding properly now! The habits you learn now will be very hard to break.

If you tried riding a GSXR on rear brake alone you would be sliding all over the place.

I really Dont see why you have such a problem braking correctly.

Cleaned and oiled the chain, did an oil change and swapped out the spark plug for something that might run a bit better given most of my commute is at 8000+ revs.

After that I thought I'd do a run to get petrol, just in case anything was off and needed adjusting after that.

Completely forgot about using the back brake!!

Doh. Had thought I'd make a conscious effort on the next run, then fail miserably.

Must keep trying lol

This came into my head when I saw the thread title...

Lol

Like that

i may be corrected here ..

i personaly do not use back brake ,, i did have a blackbird which uses 70%front 30% back ,,, i am an engine braking ridr with a quick dab of the front brake to dive forks down before corner ,, if you are going to fast into a cornere NEVER brake on the cornere to slow yourself as ou could low side / high side ,,, there is a saying you will be supprised how fast a bike will go round a bend espcially wth tyres these days you stand more chance getting round the bend even if going to fast then if you brake half way round ,,, this is advice from an advanced rider including a police rider and an emrgency get the liver to the ospital in time rider i know ,, safe riding

Some mixed up ideas here!

Your bike has three brakes. Front, rear and engine brake.

If you want to slow down, the most efficient way is to use all three. This is why you don't pull the clutch during an emergency stop.

No problem with braking on bends. you can brake anywhere you like so long as you dont exceed the level of available grip. As the lean angle increases the braking needs to decrease proportionaly.

However, best practice is to do all your braking before the bend (using all three brakes) and go through the bend with throttle applied to keep the bike balanced and keep weight distributed to the larger rear tyre rather than diving the forks to overload the smaller front tyre.

Slow in, fast out...

Also brake pads are cheaper than engines/clutches, so its much cheaper to use the rear brake to slow the back wheel than to depend on engine braking alone.

Back brake is very useful for slow speed manoeuvring. Try for yourself. Go do slow figure of eight turns at full lock with no back brake, then try the same dragging the back brake. Back brake during slow speed stuff keeps the bike more controlled.

Some mixed up ideas here!

Your bike has three brakes. Front, rear and engine brake.

If you want to slow down, the most efficient way is to use all three. This is why you don't pull the clutch during an emergency stop.

No problem with braking on bends. you can brake anywhere you like so long as you dont exceed the level of available grip. As the lean angle increases the braking needs to decrease proportionaly.

However, best practice is to do all your braking before the bend (using all three brakes) and go through the bend with throttle applied to keep the bike balanced and keep weight distributed to the larger rear tyre rather than diving the forks to overload the smaller front tyre.

Slow in, fast out...

Also brake pads are cheaper than engines/clutches, so its much cheaper to use the rear brake to slow the back wheel than to depend on engine braking alone.

Back brake is very useful for slow speed manoeuvring. Try for yourself. Go do slow figure of eight turns at full lock with no back brake, then try the same dragging the back brake. Back brake during slow speed stuff keeps the bike more controlled.

Good advice is this.

Only thing to add is that when going slow, the RPM's need to be moderately high to keep balance. By dragging the rear brake and keeping RPM's in the upper of you "low" range, you can get away with riding at almost a standstill without putting your foot down.

Some mixed up ideas here!

Your bike has three brakes. Front, rear and engine brake.

If you want to slow down, the most efficient way is to use all three. This is why you don't pull the clutch during an emergency stop.

No problem with braking on bends. you can brake anywhere you like so long as you dont exceed the level of available grip. As the lean angle increases the braking needs to decrease proportionaly.

However, best practice is to do all your braking before the bend (using all three brakes) and go through the bend with throttle applied to keep the bike balanced and keep weight distributed to the larger rear tyre rather than diving the forks to overload the smaller front tyre.

Slow in, fast out...

Also brake pads are cheaper than engines/clutches, so its much cheaper to use the rear brake to slow the back wheel than to depend on engine braking alone.

Back brake is very useful for slow speed manoeuvring. Try for yourself. Go do slow figure of eight turns at full lock with no back brake, then try the same dragging the back brake. Back brake during slow speed stuff keeps the bike more controlled.

Good advice is this.

Only thing to add is that when going slow, the RPM's need to be moderately high to keep balance. By dragging the rear brake and keeping RPM's in the upper of you "low" range, you can get away with riding at almost a standstill without putting your foot down.

yep, on the FireBike course at brands hatch that i attended, one part of the course was slow speed control. manoeuvring around cones at very slow speed. Those who tried to do it without the rear brake failed as they didn't have the control.

By keeping the rear brake on, and the revs higher than normal, you can control the bike using the clutch in the "Friction Zone". the control you get it much more precise than trying to do it off the throttle alone.

Front brake only for burnouts [emoji91] [emoji95] [emoji83]

So what about on new bikes which have linked braking? Applying the back brake also applies the front. Using the front only applies the front.

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So what about on new bikes which have linked braking? Applying the back brake also applies the front. Using the front only applies the front.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

It's the other way round on mine. Applying the front also applies the rear brake, but I can switch off linked brakes by selcting specific rider modes.

So what about on new bikes which have linked braking? Applying the back brake also applies the front. Using the front only applies the front.

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It's the other way round on mine. Applying the front also applies the rear brake, but I can switch off linked brakes by selcting specific rider modes.

Aye. Mine also Joe.

(When it's been bled right. Pain in the arse to do)

So what about on new bikes which have linked braking? Applying the back brake also applies the front. Using the front only applies the front.

Sent from my SM-G928F using Tapatalk

 

It's the other way round on mine. Applying the front also applies the rear brake, but I can switch off linked brakes by selcting specific rider modes.

Aye. Mine also Joe.

(When it's been bled right. Pain in the arse to do)

Mines dead easy to bleed... Once you've purchased the mega-expensive GS911 BMW diagnostic tool, just plug in the laptop and press the "bleed front" or "bleed rear" buttons.

It's the other way round on mine. Applying the front also applies the rear brake, but I can switch off linked brakes by selcting specific rider modes.

Aye. Mine also Joe.

(When it's been bled right. Pain in the arse to do)

 

Mines dead easy to bleed... Once you've purchased the mega-expensive GS911 BMW diagnostic tool, just plug in the laptop and press the "bleed front" or "bleed rear" buttons.

Ha ha ha

Mines 16 year old... Be a classic soon

It's never seen a laptop

Stupid question incoming, which I'll sneak in here so less people see my stupid. I've always assumed the front and rear brakes separate? So If I want to bleed the rear whatever I do won't affect the front (on my non-linked braked bike) this is correct yes? What you're talking about just applies to your fancy bikes with mad braking systems?

Stupid question incoming, which I'll sneak in here so less people see my stupid. I've always assumed the front and rear brakes separate? So If I want to bleed the rear whatever I do won't affect the front (on my non-linked braked bike) this is correct yes? What you're talking about just applies to your fancy bikes with mad braking systems?

Yes

Stupid question incoming, which I'll sneak in here so less people see my stupid. I've always assumed the front and rear brakes separate? So If I want to bleed the rear whatever I do won't affect the front (on my non-linked braked bike) this is correct yes? What you're talking about just applies to your fancy bikes with mad braking systems?

Yep, two separate braking systems. Even bikes with ABS have two reservoirs. I think so that if you have a fluid loss from one brake you still have fluid in the other and you'd at least have one working brake.

Hmmm...interesting thread. Here's a bit of science.

Front braking

When bikes slow down the weight transfers to the front of the bike. That's a good thing because more weight on the front tyre means it compresses, resulting in an increased contact patch, which means more grip and so you can brake harder. However, you need to ensure there is enough weight transfer to fully compress the front suspension as otherwise you are not compressing the front tyre and so not getting that increased contact patch. That's why most experts recommend 'two stage' braking with the front. Squeeze a little at first, pause just for a moment to let the suspension compress, and then squeeze again to perform the braking.

Rear braking

Unless you are only using the rear brake (and there are scenarios for this, like trailing braking into a bend) then the combined use of the front brake will result in weight transfer to the front and away from the rear. This makes it much easier to lock up the rear wheel, and if you have linked ABS this can result in ABS cutting in on both wheels. But also, braking with the rear will reduce the weight transfer to the front, which reduces the compression and so the grip. The additional grip gained from the rear tyre - which is under no sort of compression and has very little 'weight' on it during braking - in no way compensates for what is lost at the front. And if you try to go for 50/50 braking - taking into account that the front brakes easily offer 4x the braking effort of the rear - then you are only applying perhaps 40% of the total braking ability of the bike and losing any benefit from increased grip through compression of the front tyre.

Practical tests

I recently did a machine control course where this was covered. Braking hard using both brakes just results in ABS kicking in and the bike taking longer to stop. Braking only with the front brake - using the 'two stage' approach - is much faster, especially if you brake the front to the point where you are getting the ABS kicking in again. After practising this myself I was able to consistently stop my R1200 RT (250KG bike plus whatever I weight) from 40mph in around 8 meters using front brake only.

tl;dr

Use only the front brake - with the 'two stage' technique - if you want to slow down fast. Use the rear back for trailing braking to slow into bends or for slow speed control of the bike.

After practising this myself I was able to consistently stop my R1200 RT (250KG bike plus whatever I weight) from 40mph in around 8 meters using front brake only.

I am pretty sure your RT has linked brakes, so although you're only using the hand lever the rear brake is also being applied.

May be worth a read

Scan 23_08_2017 12_58.pdf

I am pretty sure your RT has linked brakes, so although you're only using the hand lever the rear brake is also being applied.

That's very true, the ECU automatically applies a percentage of the rear brake. I don't know how much but I do know that if I put my foot on the rear pedal I get the ABS kicking in whereas if I leave it alone I don't. So it can't be a lot. The other point with the 'two stage' technique is that you don't actually have to use that much pressure on the front lever to stop the bike. It's getting physics to do the work for you. I can't really explain it better than that - it could be voodoo, witchcraft, and mysticism for all I know - but it works. If in doubt, find a quiet stretch of road and give it a try.