Coming to a Stop!

Hi,

I had another "big bike" lesson on saturday which went ok!! however I am slightly confused!!!! When we rode through a busy town, via roads with cars parked near/close to junctions. Should I come to a stop at Give Way Junctions? How do i approach these safely?

I have been riding up to them slowly trying to engage a low gear (I think 2nd) the making sure the road is clear and safe and carrying on or should I come to stop, then look and take off.

If I do come to a stop would I fail if I stopped and the Give Way in 2nd then changed to first before taking off? I am trying to do too many things in a short space of time (brake/change gears/checks etc.)

I find it difficult to concentrate on my surroundings and remembring which gear I am in let alone knocking it into first.

Can you please advise me on the best way to stop, when I am in 6th gear in a town enviroment?

Would I fail my MOD 2 if i stopped at a give way junction if I wasnt in 1st gear or if i put my right foot down to check which gear I am in?

Thanks

Al

Legally you don't have to come to complete stop, as you would with a STOP sign, the best way to deal with them is slow down and change into a lower gear. Now, can you see far enough down the road that it is clear to carry on in 2nd?

Yes : ok carry on your manouver, indicating etc.

No : drop to 1st, stop the bike holding the rear brake on left leg down and check it's clear, do a quick lifesaver before you pull off again.

If in doubt, just stop and pull off again.

Give Way means that you must give priority to traffic on the major carriageway. It is only of the signs and lines say "Stop" that your wheels must physically stop rotating. If you do not stop at a give way, you commit no offence if you fail to stop, but both at L test standard and advanced standard you can be criticised for failing to accord presedence to traffic on the major carriageway.

In simple terms, treat "Give way" signs as a stop unless ............The view is so good that you are able to merge onto the major carriageway for example at a roundabout or a good wide open junction where you have an extended view into the major carriageway.

This way, you can roll up to the line, stop, select your gear and be ready to move off safely when traffic flow allows.

As long as you don't stop for too long you shouldn't be marked down. If you don't pull out when there's a big enough gap you may receive a minor, then I think you'd have to be doing that a lot.

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Hi,

Thanks for your replies.

So when I approach a Give Way in a Town, it would be best to Stop.

Put right foot down and make sure Im in First gear.

or should i use engine braking, going through the gears or keep the clutch pulled in and knock the gears down until I get into first ( i assume its ok for me to roll up to the give way in 1st, (if the road was clear and I did keep going am i ok to carry on in 1st without stopping? or will the bike be a bit jumpy?))

Its just when I approach a junction, I keep forgetting which gear I am in especially while riding about town

Thanks

Al

I personally don't see anything wrong with just stopping at pretty much every junction until you get comfortable. Only thing you'll get marked down for on the big day is hesitating when trying to pull away. You'll never get wrong for stopping at a give way even if there's nothing coming.

You won't get even a minor for stopping briefly at a Give Way. If I were taking my test again, I'd probably stop at each Give Way, as it's harder to make a mistake that way.

Here's for how I generally try to stop at a junction:

Use the brake, with the clutch in.

As you approach the junction, downshift gently through the gears, with the clutch still in.

Downshift to 1st just as you come to a stop.

Based on the advice from my instructor(s), if there isn't a clear view, you want to drop off enough speed so the last few metres are at almost a walking pace and down into first gear, if you get a couple of metres from the line and don't yet have a view, you plan to stop.

If you are pulling up to the line and stopping in second, then having to switch feet to change gear on a number of occasions, you may well start to pick up minors for planning maybe machine control. 3 minors for the same thing becomes a serious fault I believe.

I also picked up a minor for just dabbing my foot down, because he thought I lost balance and paddled, where in fact i was going to stop but changed my mind at the last minute. If I'd planned it better it would have been fine

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You won't get even a minor for stopping briefly at a Give Way. If I were taking my test again, I'd probably stop at each Give Way, as it's harder to make a mistake that way.

Here's for how I generally try to stop at a junction:

Use the brake, with the clutch in.

As you approach the junction, downshift gently through the gears, with the clutch still in.

Downshift to 1st just as you come to a stop.

I got a couple of minors for hesitation on my Mod2. The hesitation was stopping briefly at a few Give Ways when I could have carried on.

Oh really?

I stand corrected.

Again

Hi,

Thanks for your replies.

So when I approach a Give Way in a Town, it would be best to Stop.

Put right foot down and make sure Im in First gear.

or should i use engine braking, going through the gears or keep the clutch pulled in and knock the gears down until I get into first ( i assume its ok for me to roll up to the give way in 1st, (if the road was clear and I did keep going am i ok to carry on in 1st without stopping? or will the bike be a bit jumpy?))

Its just when I approach a junction, I keep forgetting which gear I am in especially while riding about town

Thanks

Al

Gears will come to you with practice, just remember to be READY to stop at a junction. You might not have to but if you drop down your gears, in the event you do have to, you are not going to have to faff about trying to get in the right gear.

For example. You approach in second and when you finally have a view of the road you are joining there is a car approaching. You should already be on the breaks and easing in the clutch, tap down to first and then come to a stop, putting your left foot down only, unless you really need to steady with your right.

If you do have to stop in an emergency, then put your right foot down making sure you hold the front brake and sort your gears out.

Try not to put your right foot down at all unless you have to. It will show the examiner that you are thinking ahead in terms of gears and you can control the bike properly.

There are 2 types of T junction.

'Open' or 'Closed'

A 'Closed' junction means you can't see enough of the new road on your approach to determine the traffic situation. Always come to a stop at these junctions.

An 'Open' junction is the opposite. You will have a good view on the approach and will be able to determine if you have to give way, or not before you enter the new road. The amount of view you have and sharpness of turn will determine your approach speed and this will determine your gear selection.

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Hi,

Thanks for your replies.

So when I approach a Give Way in a Town, it would be best to Stop.

Put right foot down and make sure Im in First gear.

or should i use engine braking, going through the gears or keep the clutch pulled in and knock the gears down until I get into first ( i assume its ok for me to roll up to the give way in 1st, (if the road was clear and I did keep going am i ok to carry on in 1st without stopping? or will the bike be a bit jumpy?))

Its just when I approach a junction, I keep forgetting which gear I am in especially while riding about town

Thanks

Al

Forget about engine breaking. Your instructor should have already told you NEVER EVER use engine breaking alone without real breakes on the test or in real life. You use engine breaking alone its a major fault because somebody (the examiner ) may hit you from behind.

Pull in clucth and knock the gears down until you get into first, front brake and final gentle nudge on rear brake will make you stop.

Do not put your right foot down. Keep it on the brake. Put you left foot down always. That habit will help you when your give away sign is on a road camber or slight uphill.

As already stated you stop on all give away signs that does not have clear visibility. Plan ahead. If there is a lot of visibility you just pull out the clutch and continue. In order to plan and see well ahead do not rush. Try to make all smooth.

This is why I'm glad I learnt to drive first.

what are you learning on ? im baffled why you would be in 6th gear in a town environment??

Hi,

I am learning on a Kawasaki ERB 650? (I think)

While in Town (30mph) I am generally in 5th gear but when we get to a 40mph zone I sometimes change to 6th the bike seems to go ok with this.

I have had one more lesson since and I have to admit I stopped at most junctions.

If i did roll up to a junction that looked clear I would either be in 2nd or 3rd and slip the clutch out. However if I needed to stop I would do withmu left foot on the ground and clutch in, I would then put my right foot down change to 1st the put the back brake on again. My instructor didnt pull me up on this so I assume that it was ok, but if I wasnt sure of the junction or there were parked cars I would roll up and knock down the gears to 1st then stop, once or twice I did put my right foot down to make sure I was in first, again my instructor didnt pull me up on this either. I assume this is ok?

Its trying to gain confidence and I think If I stop there is no harm in making sure Im in first before setting off (Right Foot down to check gears) Will I fail if I get into a habit of this?

Many Thanks,

Al

Hi,

If I stop there is no harm in making sure Im in first before setting off (Right Foot down to check gears) Will I fail if I get into a habit of this?

Many Thanks,

Al

If it's once or twice on your test you will probably get away with it, if it's every time i would expect a fail.

At my school everyone seemed to have a problem with the bikes going into first and staying there don't know if it was us or the bikes but we'd do the pulling up and moving off exercises thinking we were in first but when we moved off we revved up and didn't go anywhere so got into the habbit of double checking first if in these situations (particularly hills starts)

When we did our test, both myself and the other guy did exactly the same thing, right foot down to check we had first, both got called up on it as a minor fault.

On the other hand though, the other guy with me was retaking his test and had failed because he hadn't engaged first properley then when moving off went nowhere, then forgot to do his livesafer after sorting his gears.

So the moral of the story is better to be safe than sorry when you're moving off if you're not sure as long as it's only once or twice, but in general make sure you're in first before stopping.

If it's early days don't worry too much, it will become more natural with time I'm sure.

Have word with your instructor about gear selection round town ie 30 mph.

I personally would be in 3rd or 4th at those speeds on 600. Bikes are not like cars and they love to be revved. 6th gear at 30 and the bike will be labouring.

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Deso and littlecat are right. 6th is meant for at motorway speeds. I'd have thought 3rd / 4th for 30 mph is about right for the ER6.