The oldest bike restoration thread on here?

Just a bit of an update. I have now spent about 3 hours taking the centre stand off and on and machining the nuts I turned to allow it move freely. It now swings up and down with nothing binding. Once its painted I will probably need to loosen it off some more once its all painted and assembled. I have ordered some more stainless bar to make the return spring mount up.

Given that I intend sorting the BMW ural engine swap next I thought that if I can get the Panther out of the garage then I will have some space to allow me to mate the gearbox and engine up. As the Panther needs to go away to a pipe bender to have the exhausts bent up then now would be the ideal time to do this. So a pair of Burgess style round silencers ,"P" clips mounts and clamps were ordered from Armours in Bournemouth.

These duly came last week and I have just mounted the silencers and will be dropping the bike off this week for them to make a start. I am hoping it will be a few weeks before they are done. Giving me time to get the Ural sorted.

apparently my front mudguard has been started on and will be repaired soon. So fingers crossed next year should see the paint and assembly go ahead.

Here are both silencers mounted . The tool box is just loosely mounted and will be finalised once the pipes are fitted.

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/DSC_0014.JPG

hi new to the forum, regarding panther strouds any one no what they look like , i have recently bought a model 80 panther, the frame is very strange i can not find anything like it anywhere on the net, how would you know if your bike is a stroud?

I would join the Panther owners club

http://www.pantherownersclub.com/.

A very helpfull and knowledgable club . With a very active membership who take part in many rallies and events during the year. They have the factory records and drawings so should be able to tell you exactly what bike you have if you give them the numbers. They may even be able to tell you who built the engine up orginally due to another mark on it.

Ok, I will get xmas over and i then join thanks

Its been a bit quiet in both my bike rebuild threads as I have the arse with the BMW as It turns over but isn't sparking so I need to sort that out. Well a better electrition than me needs to have a look and the Panther has been away having some exhausts bent up. Also i tend to take a bit of break from the garage around january time as its normally too cold and damp to be arsed to go in there. But first I got a phone call the other week from the guy who is repairing my front mudguard to say its finished. So I popped over to pick that up and then the exhaust guy phoned last week to say they are done as well.

I picked the bike up yesterday and today had a look at it in the day light with the mudguard mounted. This is what the front guard looked like when I took it be repaired.

http://www.russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/DSCF0842.jpg

This is the bike as it stands at the moment. The mudguard will need a good fill when its painted as its still pitted and a bit rough looking in places . But he has added lots of new metal to the front and back and generally sorted most of the cracks and other issues I had

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http://www.russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/red3.jpg

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The exhaust guy has bent the hand change lever for me and the gearchange rod just about clears the exhaust. So I have ordered some 6mm stainless bar to make a new lower lever up which will be cranked over to move the rod further away from the exhaust. I am so glad we decided to move the gearchange rod instead of adding a kink to the exhaust. These pipes will look awesome when they are chromed up. I didn't want stainless ( he did offer the do them in stainless) as I think chrome looks so much better on exhausts and stainless tends to discolour fairly quickly .

More progress.

I have sent a load of parts off to be Chromed. So fingers crossed they should be done in a couple of months. I have also ordered a new magneto gear. They are like rocking horse pooh for these bikes so I had a gear welded onto a tapered spacer i had made. But it turns out the gear I was using was 20 deg pressure angle and the correct presure angle is 19 deg. This alters the actual shape of the gear tooth. I used to work in a gear makers so do understand how complex gears can be with all the differing tooth forms. Plus people have tried to use the different gears and it just wipes out both sets in a very short time. I am a member of the Panther owners club facebook group and it would appear that there are at least 4 of these bikes being rebuilt with 1 being rebuilt in Australia. We all need one of these gears so we have arranged to have a batch of 10 made up . The cost is £50 per gear. So they should be winging there way to me soon.

I have also tried to order a rear mudguard. I could get the correct width and profile but all I could get was a 40" length one. I needed a 53" length so had to order 2. So last weekend I cut and shut both guards and have managed to join them together to give me the length. These are now away at the welder to be glued together. I also made all 3 mudguard stays up and will (fingers crossed) mount the guard this weeked. I can then mount the number plate, rear chain guard and tool box. Once these are all made up and mounted I think I am about ready to rip it apart to get it all painted and then the final build will commence. With the plan being to be on the road this summer. I will drop the large items at a proper painter and then have a go at the frame myself. As its very pitted I intend brush painting a lot of coats on the frame to hide the pitting.

But tonight I decided to have a go at removing the stuck studs in the engine.

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/push~0.jpg

These are 2 studs which are stuck in the cases. The top threads have been butchered so I couldn't lock 2 nuts in place to remove them. So I filed 2 flats on each stud to take a 7mm spanner. I then heated them up with my blow torch and with a bit of force on the spanner I managed to get both studs out without knackering the cases. I then used some 5/16" stainless bar to make 2 new studs .I cut a 5/16 BSW ( British Standard Whitworth ) thread on the lower part of the studs and a 5/16 BSF ( British Standard Fine) thread on the top. The BSW thread is a very coarse thread used to thread parts into alloy engine cases. The BSF is a much finer thread which is very similar to a metric thread pitch at these smaller sizes ( 5/16 is about 8mm).

Here are the new studs mounted in the cases.

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/push2.jpg

The 2 items that you can see sticking up between the studs are the tappet adjustment blocks. The pushrods sit in the top of these parts and are hiden by the pushrod tube when the engine is built up.

Once the parts are away being painted I will pull the motor apart and give it a good clean. But i am hoping that once its cleaned it ready to go back together as I think it was a running engine and seems to turn over ok. The gearbox will also be pulled apart and then rebuilt properly as i always planned to do this and had only assembled the gearbox to see if it works. I had not put gasket cement on when i first built it. I have also bought a new output bearing for the gearbox as it a funny size. so that will be used in the final build. The bearing is an english width and outside diameter and a metric inner diameter.

Yet more bits done. I am trying to get at least one job a night done in the race to get it to the painters soon. So tonight I popped round my Dads and borrowed his Cycle thread dies again. I finished off the part my mate had turned for me by sticking a 3/8" cycle thread on it and then made a 7/16 stainless bolt to drain the oil from the head on these bikes.

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/stud.jpg

The 7/16" ( about 11mm) stud is the part on the LH side of this shot. it bolts into the head and has a banjo union to a copper pipe. This allows the oil which collects round the exhaust valve to drain away. this is a problem with these bikes due to the sloping engine design. The exhaust valve sits lower than the oil pushrod tube where the oil should return down. So for the later engines

( IE about 1936 onwards) they added and extra oil drain. My Trial bike has not got this drain fitted yet ( as I need to drill and tap the cases to mount it) so will smoke at bit at start up due to the oil draining down the valve stem when its been sitting for a while. But given that i have the oil flow turned up on this bike due to the abuse it gets off road then I don't mind a bit of smoke .

The centre part is the item my mate turned for me and its the stud which fits in the top of the front fork spring and then locks this into place in the top yoke. The large nut was one I made a year or so ago from stainless. Both these items have a 3/8" cycle thread on them. The large nut locks against the spring and then the stud fits throught the fork and is locked in place by another nut

I also recieved this through the post today

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/sad.jpg

Its a replica of a Dunlop rubber saddle as fitted to these bikes back in the day. As you can nsee the frame needs a bit of work to mount it and then you have to rivet the cover on. Apparently these saddles give you a sweaty arse if you sit in them for a long time. But a bit of sheep skin fitted on the top does wonders.

I am also on ebay every night trying to order the odd and sods I need so when I am ready I will have everything to hand. So i am ordering odd sizes nuts and bolts nearly everyday.

I have had a few more hours in the garage this weekend. Well it has been too shite to do anything else really. My 2 mudguards came back from the welder joined together so I now have 1 long rear mudguard. So today I started knocking up the stays and brackets to hold it in place.

http://www.russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/DSC_0734.JPG

Here is the first trial fit to see it all lines up and is in the middle of the frame. Its looking good apart from it may be a slightly too large a radius so it means the rear end is not as tight as I would like round the rear of the tyre. But I will live with this for now and then maybe redo the mudguad with a tighter radius at a later date( IE next winter). So lots of drilling of holes tomorrow. I will then etch primer under the mudguard and on the top of the brackets before I rivet them in place. You can also see my trial mount of my new seat before I finally decide where the front mounts should be and then get my Dad to weld them on for me. You can just make out behind the seat spring where the mudguards have been welded together. I will tidy this weld up once I am happy with the fit

I also picked up my primary chaincase from the welders.

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I took it to the welders so he could weld the front dome onto the case . This is to cover the spring loaded shock absorber mounted on the crank shaft. The original engine that used these in cases didn't have the shock absorber fitted as they just used rubber bungs in the clutch to take the shocks ( yes the chain case should be pressed tin but they are unobtainable so a mate knocked me an alloy one up, once its painted you will never know).

Here is my new oil drain pipe fitted to the head using my previously made stainless bolt.

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This pipe came today from the POC and is off a 500 cc bike. The pipe was too long due to the longer stroke of the bigger bike. So I had to cut the union off the top end and then cut the pipe down, drill the old copper pipe out of the union and then solder the union back on again.

I feel like I'm on the home straight now. I finally got all the parts mounted like the toolbox, rear mudguard, chain case. The rear mudguard ended up being a right mare and it took about 2 weeks to sort out. I have gone back to the original mudguard i bought a while ago and half fitted . Its not the correct contor but will do for now. So I decided to wheel the bike outside and have a look.

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http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/side4.jpg

I actually think its looking the bollocks now.

The seat has been made up and painted so is ready to attach. All my bits have been at the chromer and are now ready to pick up. They did ruin the petrol cap by going through it in places . But bearing in mind the cap is 80 years old and was rusty then I was sort of expecting that. I did think about trying to repair it by brazing it up. But in the end decided to have a go at making a new one from stainless. So i ordered some 6mm stainless plate from ebay. I then cut a rough hexagon out with my hacksaw. I then mounted this in my lathe and turned it until I had a round part.

I then had to mount this on a lump of ali in my lathe so I could turn the insdie out.

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/cap.jpg

Here you can see the ali lump in the lathe chuck, the 4 bolts I fitted to hold the cap right on its edge, I am part way through scooping the inside of the part out with a boring bar. It took about 3 hours to turn the cap .

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Here is the top of the cap with the stainless bolt i turned fitted in the middle. It does need a bit more polishing but i wanted to try it out.

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/cap5.jpg

Here is the inside mechanism of the petrol cap. The 3 claws are wound out to grip the inner edge of the tank filler as there is athread on the bolt fitted in the cap. Once these claws lock onto the tank the top is then screwed down and copmpresses the rubber seal.

I am now in the process of the big strip down and final finishing of any bits I think of while stripping it down. Like today i cut down the gearbox mounting bolts as I had made them too long. I also knocked up some front mudguard brackets to fit under the fork yoke. I have been buying all the odds and sods I need to finish the bike so the postman has been groaning under the wieght of some of the parcels being delivered. But the plan is to get it stripped down and then blasted next week and then drop all the bits apart from the frame off at the painters. I am going to try finishing the frame myself as its very pitted so want to try to fill and brush paint it at home. I have ordered some brush painting paint and all the other stuff I need to complete the job.

So the plan is to have it running by the middle of june.

Oh shiney.

Can you guess where i went today

The first parts of the final assembly finished ( well apart from a slight tweak to the rubber kneegrip mounting plates). But I am well chuffed with how this has turned out. I just hope its petrol tight now . The cap fitted is the home made one I turned up from a stainless plate. I also was given a spare hand change lever by my dad the other day. This had a useable bakalite knob fitted on the end. I managed to get this off the old lever and attach it to this one without damaging the knob. But i am well chuffed with the result so far.

I had to fit some more bits just to see what they looked like.

The kickstart lever needed a Phozy bronze bush making to take up all the play. So a few weeks ago i knocked one up on the lathe. I then spent a couple of hours at the weekend boring the hole to fit on the shaft. I managed a nice loose fit and then pressed the bush into the kickstart lever with some loctite . Then the bloody hole closed up so it wouldn't fit on the kickstart shaft. I had to pop round my dads and borrow his 5/8" reamer to hand ream the hole to size. I managed this today and then thought I would stick my new chromed parts on the gearbox to have a look. There is a large coil spring that fits behind the round cover which returns the kickstart this cover also hides the kickstart quadrant . This meshes with the RH end of the main shaft and causes the mainshaft to rotate when the kick start is pressed. There will be a split pin that fits in the small hole in the end of the kickstart shaft to keep the kickstart in place .

The lever you can see top right is the lower lever for the hand change lever and the chrome item in the middle of the box is the clutch lever which the end of the clutch cable fits in to. This lever pushes on the clutch pushrod and operates the clutch via a long pushrod mounted through the mianshaft to the clutch on the LH side of the bike.

I intend stripping the gearbox down in the next few days and giving it a bit of clean up and then rebuilding it ready to fit.

Its all coming along now. Most of my parts have now been blasted and are away at a painters . The frame has been hanging up in my garage for a few days while i brush paint some primer on it. Its going to start gettting some top coats tomorrow. with lots of rubbing down while I try to hide the pits. The gearbox and clutch are now finally assembled and are ready to go back in the bike.

Here is the completed gearbox with the clutch fitted and all the bolts and spacers and snail cams that mount it to the engine plates. The slotted lug on the LH side is where the clutch cable fits and then this pulls the chrome lever up to activate the clutch. The chrome plate is an access plate through which you can check the gears and its also where you fill the gearbox up with grease. These boxes use a "semi fluid " grease. This is a grease which is nearly a fluid. You pour it into the gearbox and it lays in the bottom of the box while at rest. Once you start using the bike the grease gets flung about and then drips down on all the moving parts to keep them cool. It sounds crude but works well ( obviously not as good as modern stuff with modern oils) but anyboxes which have been looked after so little sign of wear. This gearbox is 80 years old and still has the original gears fitted . The only parts i have changed are any bushes which were worn and both roller bearings as they are so cheap it would be wrong not to change them.

The next item to be looked at is the engine which is having a stip and clean and re assemble over the next few days. I am picking my brake shoes up later this week after having new linings fitted.

I have just reached a major part of the rebuild.

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/engine~1.jpg

The engine is on the bench waiting to be stripped and cleaned and then re assembled. This feels like and is a major milestone.

I took the engine shock asbsorber off today. This is just a sprocket with some cams on it onto which another cam fits. This is pressed against the sprocket by a large spring. So any sudden skocks make the cams rise over each other and reduce the shock to the transmission.

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/shock.jpg

Here is the unit with the spring nearly undone. The large nut on the RH side of the picture will screw in and tighten the tension on the spring.

I also purchased from the Panther owners club a couple of sets of gasket sets. These come in at £8 each and are NOS ( New Old Stock)

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/gask.jpg

I also dropped the timing cover off today. Only to find that the crank pinion has not got the Timing marks it should have to allow the pinions to line up and get the timing right. So I will ahve to use a degree disc to see if its right when I rebuild the engine.

Having seen these bikes at the national motorcycle museum it's great to see someone putting the love and care into it. I look forward to the finished product

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

I had about 20 mins in the garage tonight so thought I would split the cases to take a look.

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/crank.jpg

Here is the complete crank and piston assembly. It just needs a good clean and its ready to go back in. As you can see its a full crank flywheel ( most brit singles are like this ) so the flywheels are very heavy and this is reason why Brit bikes tend to have lots of low down power.

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/crank_side.jpg

This is the RH side ( timing side) crankcase. I split the cases as I did think they would have a bit of shite in them due to the engine knocking around in garages for years. I was proved right as there was a fair bit of dirt laying in the bottom of the cases and also a 3/8 nut as well. This engine and other Panther engines of this type are unusual for Brit bikes in that they are semi wet sump. Most brit bike usually have an oil tank seperate to the engine. The large round area with the bronze washer in the centre is the area where the crank sits. The flywheels are a close fit to the alloy circle which is cast into the case.

The funny shaped area to the left of the crank case with the dipstick pointing down is the oil tank. ( if you look at the engine photo in the post above you will see the top of the dipstick)

A close up of the top of the dipstick

As you can see there is a space at the top of the circular web. This is know as the weir ( as in river weirs) The oil drains down into the area where the crank fits and due to the close fit of the flywheels these pick the oil up as they spin and throw it forwards over the weir and then back into the oil tank to be used again. The only pump on these engines is for the feed side. These engines run with very little oil pressure due to the use of roller bearings. After a good look the mains and the big end seem fine so will be cleaned up and used as is. So I will buy some degreaser tomorrow and stck the parts in my washer to give them a good clean. Fingers crossed the engine will be back together this weekend.

I am also trying to brush paint the frame ( and this is harder than it looks.) I am on my 8th coat of paint now. Everday after work is sit down and rub the frame down again with wet and dry and the stick another coat of paint before tea. The pits are starting to fill up and the frame is looking better by the coat. But I am not looking for a perfect job so It may still have some pits when i ma finished.

Guess where I went today.

This is that skanky front mudguard

my tool box

Another part ticked off the to do list.

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The engine is all bolted together, timed up and the valve clearances set. I just need to lift the rocker cover off once its back in the frame and I am ready to fit the valve lfter lever.

Here I am part way through setting the timing.

http://russianbike.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/DSC_0795.JPG

Here you see the points end of the magneto. With my magneto timing tool. This is used to tell when the points have just opened. A light comes on when the points are open so its an easy operation to set the exact point this happens by rocking the mag backwards and forwards . You start by setting the engine to 11.1 mm BTDC on the compression stroke. You then find the point when the points have just opened .

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Then you have to tap the gear onto the other end of the mag while holding it still. Then you lock up the lock nut. You then spin the engine a couple of times and re check it The mag gear is new gear in the picture above.

Tomorrow is going to be a wheel sorting day. So I will be sorting out the brakes and finishing off the spacers I made. As I have booked the week off work then hopefully this week will be a rebuild a bike week.

I give up.

How the f### do people bolt show winning bikes together without damaging the paint. Given that mine will not be a show winner it's not a major issue but even so I am trying. It's a good job the painter gave me what was left in the tin of paint to use to touch up parts

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The frame and forks are now fitted to my engine and gerabox. Its been a mare trying to fit parts which no longer fit due to them having a coating of paint on them. So its taken about 2 days to get this far. But its looking good so far.

Its finally mobile. Not yet under its own power but I can roll it around

Its taken 3 days to get all the bits bolted together . It took 4 attempts to get the rear wheel turning without binding. I have had to file loads off the rear brake shoes so they will fit and not rub on the drum so they will needs lots of bedding in. It's taken 2 goes to get the toolbox mounted right. I also spent about 2 hours today making a valve lifter cable. I have finally managed to get it the right length and can now adjust the rest of the mechanism to get this working. These are the bits which take all the time. I need to make a throttle cable tomorrow and then thats all the cables done.

One job was to "fix" the brand new levers as the front brake lever was binding. The problem is that all the stuff you buy now is pattern made in India shit. So nothing fits and the workmanship is shoddy. I wish i could find some orginal levers and get them rechromed.

If you want to see this bike and thousands of other old bikes in the flesh then pop over to our Founders day show.

http://www.thetaverners.com/images/main/found/2016%20Poster-page-001.jpg

Well worth the £6 entry fee.

Much progress has been made. On Friday I got the tank on and finally nailed it all together. So I wheeled it out side to try to start it

So a quickle tickle and then a few kicks on the starter. Nothing. It was trying to start but I never managed it. So I dispondantly wheeled it back into the garage. I tied new plugs and leaving it to allow the fuel to evaporate before trying again. But no joy.

A search on the Panther forum and I started to suspect i had the cam timing wrong due to the lack of timing marks and also the fact it kept spitting fuel back out of the carb on every kick. So Sat morning I popped into the garage and took the timing cover off again. After a read of how others set the timing I decided I had it wrong and reset the cam timing. I also had to reset the ignition timing as well. The good news was that when i pulled the timing cover off it was full of oil so at least i knew the oil pump was working. After nailing it all together again I tried again and it fired up 2nd kick.

I then got SHMBO out with he phone to video my first ride out and this happened

https://youtu.be/qRPZZL0C0F4

Every time I tried to put it in gear the clutch dragged and stalled the bike. I did manage a quick ride after a bump start . So it was wheeled back in he garage and I went down the pub to see my mates as it was my birthday.

So today i attacked the clutch again as it was both slipping and dragging at the same time. I think the springs are a bit the worse for wear due to being 80 odd year old. So I packed them out a bit with washers to try to make the clutch stiffer. It sort of worked so at least can now ride the bike. But i still have slipping issues. I will pop round to see a local spring maker to have a new set made up or even see if he can make some slightly stronger ones up.

https://youtu.be/CpJuxQa_gFg

But its running . I have managed about 10 miles today in ever increasing loops from my house so I can pop back and adjust stuff. I am finding the hand change easy to use apart from not being able to find 2nd gear easily. But I have worked out that to get into 2nd you need to move the lever past 2nd and then bring it back up into place. I will get better as I get more practice with this. The only down side is that once you have the next gear selected the bike has lost a lot of its speed. But I am loving bimbleing about on this bike. I fully expect to have other teething troubles over the next few miles. But the good news is my engine is really strong and sounds nice. Which given i haven't touched it apart from a strip and clean means I am well chuffed. It doesn't sound bad and only has one leak out of the timing cover. Which i will sort another time.

I bloody love this, you have done an amazing job.

Well done on the start and ride, looks like wigston?

belated happy birthdays too

I bloody love this, you have done an amazing job.

Well done on the start and ride, looks like wigston?

belated happy birthdays too

Yes mate it is wigston