Newbie preparing to shop

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geofferz
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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by geofferz » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:53 am

Jerry1111 wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:29 pm
Arwen wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:00 am
Welcome! For your first bike, I sugest you go sit on as manhy bikes s you can at as many showrooms as you can. Not only is the look and sound something that m ost bikers look for in a bike, but comfort is a major thing.
OK, thanks for a list of bikes to try, I'll widen my horizons before pulling the trigger ;-)
I don't give monkeys about looks etc (this toy is for my enjoyment - couldn't care less what the onlookers think). The three tasks for this bike are enjoyment, grin on my face (already getting that prepping for MOD2) and getting experience.

In terms of fairing, how much difference would I notice between half- and full fairing? This would be for occasional commute (so some rain expected) and for evening/weekend fun. Obviously full fairing is going to result in a more costly drop - but that's why I'm aiming at 2nd hand bikes, will probably fit some crash bungs as well.
If you want fun get the fastest bike you can afford. Fairing doesn't bother me - if you ride in the rain you will get wet. What's your budget - 4k?
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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by Arwen » Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:55 am

XTreme wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:57 pm
Arwen wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:43 pm
can't say I noticed a difference from some of the baker's I've ridden.
You have a thing for men who work in bread shops Arwen? :shock:
Lol !! My phone is getting worse for auto correct these days, I really need to double check everything :lol:
dynax wrote:
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Arwen wrote:
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I can't comment on the fairing thing, I've only ever ridden naked :lol:
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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by Mississippi Bullfrog » Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:37 am

Chances are whatever you go for now you will think about changing it within a fairly short time. It's quite common because you rarely find the right bike first time round. So go for something pretty cheap that you won't worry about dropping and you won't lose much on when you change it.

Or, if you then find your ideal toy, keep the hack for foul weather and the shiny one for the one day of the year when it doesn't rain.
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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by Jerry1111 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:04 am

Bender wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:19 pm
Fairing makes big difference especially this time of year, may I draw your attention to the S2 fz6 add that to your list, similar to xj6 but a bit more lively at top end but only if you want it to be.
That's exactly what I'm looking for - control its levels of liveliness by being in the rev range. Shame they stopped making these Fazers so long ago. I'm a bit sceptical of buying >10 years old bike, mainly to avoid rust rather than mechanical wear and tear. It's the seized bolts, rust creeping everywhere, etc, that I'm trying to avoid.

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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by Jerry1111 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:05 am

fastbob wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:16 am
You say " I don't give monkeys about looks etc (this toy is for my enjoyment - couldn't care less what the onlookers think)." Yeah, but YOU'VE got to look at it
Nope, don't have to look at it - I've got to produce grin on MY face with it! If I'm looking at the thing, then I'm not riding it ;-)

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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by Mississippi Bullfrog » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:26 am

Jerry1111 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:04 am
Bender wrote:
Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:19 pm
Fairing makes big difference especially this time of year, may I draw your attention to the S2 fz6 add that to your list, similar to xj6 but a bit more lively at top end but only if you want it to be.
That's exactly what I'm looking for - control its levels of liveliness by being in the rev range. Shame they stopped making these Fazers so long ago. I'm a bit sceptical of buying >10 years old bike, mainly to avoid rust rather than mechanical wear and tear. It's the seized bolts, rust creeping everywhere, etc, that I'm trying to avoid.
Many 10+ year old bikes are built far better than current stuff. It's why I ride a 2006 Honda as my workhorse.
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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by Jerry1111 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:19 am

geofferz wrote:
Wed Nov 06, 2019 10:53 am
If you want fun get the fastest bike you can afford.
I'm trying not to kill myself just yet, if I empty my wallet I'll end up killing myself on the machine :D
That's why I like low grunt at low revs and more poke at high revs. Fast ones don't forgive beginners mistakes too easily - I don't yet trust myself enough not to do something silly.
Fairing doesn't bother me - if you ride in the rain you will get wet. What's your budget - 4k?
I will be annoyed if I drop a £15k bike and then have to change expensive plastics. I'll be much less annoyed dropping a £4k bike - will happily put it down to experience. So £4k give or take a few hundred is my starting point.

I'm assuming that the "first bike" will give me experience and riding time, I'll survive some mistakes and not get injured. I'm also assuming this bike will be swapped for something else within a year, simply because I'll outgrow it. I'm also assuming I'll lose a few hundred when swapping "first bike" for the next one - which is why I don't want the first one to be too expensive. I'm also assuming that I'll keep my second bike for longer - so it will be OK to spend more on it.

Because I don't know which will be the second bike - that's why I'm leaning towards first bike being a "universal" one, which I'm assuming the schools are going for as well - but I'm not sure if this is a good decision in terms of me progressing through experience.

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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by Jerry1111 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:31 am

Mississippi Bullfrog wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:26 am
Many 10+ year old bikes are built far better than current stuff. It's why I ride a 2006 Honda as my workhorse.
Completely agree - nothing gets close to build quality of a good old Merc W124, but even in these cars the one thing that can't be mitigated is the rust of time. That's why mentally I'm trying to avoid things that are over 10 years old. Rust pops out, all the rubbers disintegrate (Vitron rubbers start to deteriorate after 10 years), bolts seize etc.
One exception is that I managed to keep my RIB outboard from 2006 in a very good nick - but that was a lot of hard work (most of the bolts removed yearly, lubed with Quicksilver 24c), lots of work in prevention because this is used in salt water. I can't afford the same amount of time on bikes/cars...

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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by Mississippi Bullfrog » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:23 am

Jerry1111 wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 10:31 am
Mississippi Bullfrog wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:26 am
Many 10+ year old bikes are built far better than current stuff. It's why I ride a 2006 Honda as my workhorse.
Completely agree - nothing gets close to build quality of a good old Merc W124, but even in these cars the one thing that can't be mitigated is the rust of time. That's why mentally I'm trying to avoid things that are over 10 years old. Rust pops out, all the rubbers disintegrate (Vitron rubbers start to deteriorate after 10 years), bolts seize etc.
One exception is that I managed to keep my RIB outboard from 2006 in a very good nick - but that was a lot of hard work (most of the bolts removed yearly, lubed with Quicksilver 24c), lots of work in prevention because this is used in salt water. I can't afford the same amount of time on bikes/cars...
Go to one of the bike supermarkets where they have lots of older bikes alongside newer stuff (I'm not suggesting buying from them as some are pile 'em high sell 'em cheap operations - but you get to compare older bikes to newer ones) - you will most likely find most rust and seized bolts on bikes under 10 years old. Whereas stuff older than 10 years old tends to be built of better quality components. The exception in my experience is Suzuki stuff as I've found their build quality has never been as bulletproof.

When I needed a workhorse I looked at new bikes, then found examples 2 years old in dealers, and noticed how many of them showed signs of corrosion and seized bolts - which for me is a pain in the backside. So looked older and found less rust and corrosion problems.
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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by Jerry1111 » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:12 pm

Mississippi Bullfrog wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:23 am
When I needed a workhorse I looked at new bikes, then found examples 2 years old in dealers, and noticed how many of them showed signs of corrosion and seized bolts - which for me is a pain in the backside. So looked older and found less rust and corrosion problems.
Funny thing - seen ER650 in the dealers, about 3 years old (probably one of first from the new ones) and already had rust. Is this specific to Kawasaki or is everybody involving accountants in the design process these days?

Also, how much should I care about ABS? It's next to impossible to find a 5-6 years old bike (so an IL4) that would have ABS.

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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by Mississippi Bullfrog » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:53 pm

Jerry1111 wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:12 pm
Mississippi Bullfrog wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:23 am
When I needed a workhorse I looked at new bikes, then found examples 2 years old in dealers, and noticed how many of them showed signs of corrosion and seized bolts - which for me is a pain in the backside. So looked older and found less rust and corrosion problems.
Funny thing - seen ER650 in the dealers, about 3 years old (probably one of first from the new ones) and already had rust. Is this specific to Kawasaki or is everybody involving accountants in the design process these days?

Also, how much should I care about ABS? It's next to impossible to find a 5-6 years old bike (so an IL4) that would have ABS.
My 2006 CBF500 has ABS. I've never had it cut in but it's nice to know it's there. Some people absolutely insist on ABS, especially for newer riders. I'd be happy without but then I've been riding for many years and ridden most of that time before ABS was available.
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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by S-Westerly » Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:25 am

I came back to biking after quite a few years of being an idiot car driver. A Ducati Multistrada caught my eye and I thought what a damned fine bike it looked. I subsequently bought one without ever even sitting on one let alone riding one. 18 months and 7000 miles later I can say it's given me more joy than anything other than my family. I absolutely love it. Listen to your heart not your head.
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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by JRH » Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:05 pm

If you want to keep to IL4 then Fz6 good option needs but tends to be revvy, Bandit 650 not so revvy but still fairly quick.
MT 07 is worth looking at as well.
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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by Jerry1111 » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:46 pm

JRH wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:05 pm
If you want to keep to IL4
That's what I'm trying. Test-drove 2018 Ninja 650 yesterday. Mechanically nicer gearbox and clutch, probably a bit easier to ride, but I learned that I really prefer IL4 over 2. I didn't like the vibrations. I tried to ignore Akrapovic exhaust sound (it was KRT perf, they didn't have non-performance 2nd hand to try out) - boy it was loud ;-)

My other limit is insurance. XJ6 comes around 250-290, Ninja 650 is already 480. I'm hoping this will fix itself within a year and come down to normal prices.

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Re: Newbie preparing to shop

Post by geofferz » Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:01 am

Jerry1111 wrote:
Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:46 pm
JRH wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:05 pm
If you want to keep to IL4
My other limit is insurance. XJ6 comes around 250-290, Ninja 650 is already 480. I'm hoping this will fix itself within a year and come down to normal prices.
You can check - on a comparison site whack an extra year on your pass date and ncd and see what it says.
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