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A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

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Is this tyre Legal or illegal

Legal
15
44%
Illegal
19
56%
 
Total votes: 34

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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#46 Post by someone » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:27 am

TC1474 wrote:
someone wrote:That page only shows the original 1986 regulations, and I do not think there is a consolidated current version online. According to a search there have been 109 amendments since then!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/all?title ... endment%29

Happy reading!
A television receiver in the line of sight of the driver remains illegal
Maybe so. But as Joeman says, those 1986 regulations specifically define a television receiver as a cathode ray tube. And doing a search over the amendments, none include the word "television" so presumably that definition is still the one currently in place.

Although those original regulations do add "or other cinematographic apparatus" but without a specific definition. So that presumably will be used to legally cover modern LCD televisions and the like.

But my point about the regulations online being the original version is more general than that. the online version only requires a 1mm tread depth on any vehicle, for a notable example. The change to requiring 1.6mm on many vehicle types is only found in the 4th amendment of 1990.

So what I am saying is you cannot simply read the regulations on that page and assume they are correct, as anything could have changed since then. You have to read everything, or else probably can pay the TSO for a current consolidated version.
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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#47 Post by Bianco2564 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:04 am

TC1474 wrote:I will put you out of your misery :D

The tyre is legal. So those who said legal give yourself a pat on the back :D I made the specific point that the bike was 49cc

I would not want to ride on it even on a 49cc, but under regulation 27 of the Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986, the law states in respect of motorcycle tyres

1) Save as provided in paragraphs (2), (3) and (4), a wheeled motor vehicle or trailer a wheel of which is fitted with a pneumatic tyre shall not be used on a road, if—

(g) either—

(i) the grooves of the tread pattern of the tyre do not have a depth of at least 1 mm throughout a continuous band measuring at least three-quarters of the breadth of the tread and round the entire outer circumference of the tyre; or

(ii) if the grooves of the original tread pattern of the tyre did not extend beyond three-quarters of the breadth of the tread, any groove which showed in the original tread pattern does not have a depth of at least 1 mm; or

However The regulations go on to say

(c)Nothing in paragraph (1)(g) applies to a motorcycle with an engine capacity which does not exceed 50 cc.

Had it been 50cc, then it would be illegal. 1cc can make all the difference.

If you want another I will come up with something....
Yes I read that law,but doesn't this apply?
(f)the base of any groove which showed in original tread pattern of the tyre is clearly visible.

This contradicts the HC on "tread should be visible" for a moped,suggesting its only advisable?

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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#48 Post by Baloo » Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:15 am

Has it been tested in court TC?

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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#49 Post by TC1474 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:00 am

Baloo wrote:Has it been tested in court TC?
Yes, a few years ago. Resulted in an aquital

Has also been tested for contributory negligence in an accident claim. Dismissed.
Bianco2564 wrote:
This contradicts the HC on "tread should be visible" for a moped,suggesting its only advisable?
Please do not start this debate again, we have had this over the past 2 weeks :roll:

The law always over rides the Highway Code. So it is not not contradicting. Advising something is not law :roll: :wink:
someone wrote:
TC1474 wrote:
someone wrote:That page only shows the original 1986 regulations, and I do not think there is a consolidated current version online. According to a search there have been 109 amendments since then!

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/all?title ... endment%29

Happy reading!
A television receiver in the line of sight of the driver remains illegal
Maybe so. But as Joeman says, those 1986 regulations specifically define a television receiver as a cathode ray tube. And doing a search over the amendments, none include the word "television" so presumably that definition is still the one currently in place.
You may well be right, but I can only comment on prosecutions that I know have occured and the current interpretation of the current regulations. I did say that my previous comment on this was from memory as the original post had nothing to do with TV receivers, and on the 2 or 3 occasions I prosecuted someone it was for failing to maintain proper control and careless driving which is the more serious offence anyay.

So regardless, there is always a way round things. It is contrary to section 3 of the ways and means act 1970 :wink:
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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#50 Post by Bianco2564 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:28 am

TC1474 wrote:
Bianco2564 wrote:
This contradicts the HC on "tread should be visible" for a moped,suggesting its only advisable?
Please do not start this debate again, we have had this over the past 2 weeks :roll:

The law always over rides the Highway Code. So it is not not contradicting. Advising something is not law :roll: :wink:
Fair enough,but what about?
The exemption for mopeds is only paragraph (g)?

(27.—(1) Save as provided in paragraphs (2), (3) and (4), a wheeled motor vehicle or trailer a wheel of which is fitted with a pneumatic tyre shall not be used on a road, if—

(a)the tyre is unsuitable having regard to the use to which the motor vehicle or trailer is being put or to the types of tyres fitted to its other wheels;

(b)the tyre is not so inflated as to make it fit for the use to which the motor vehicle or trailer is being put;

(c)the tyre has a cut in excess of 25 mm or 10% of the section width of the tyre, whichever is the greater, measured in any direction on the outside of the tyre and deep enough to reach the ply or cord;

(d)the tyre has any lump, bulge or tear caused by separation or partial failure of its structure;

(e)the tyre has any of the ply or cord exposed;

(f)the base of any groove which showed in the original tread pattern of the tyre is not clearly visible;


(g)either—

(i) the grooves of the tread pattern of the tyre do not have a depth of at least 1 mm throughout a continuous band measuring at least three-quarters of the breadth of the tread and round the entire outer circumference of the tyre; or

(ii) if the grooves of the original tread pattern of the tyre did not extend beyond three-quarters of the breadth of the tread, any groove which showed in the original tread pattern does not have a depth of at least 1 mm; or f)the base of any groove which showed in original tread pattern of the tyre is clearly visible.

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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#51 Post by Baloo » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:53 am

TC1474 wrote:
Baloo wrote:Has it been tested in court TC?
Yes, a few years ago. Resulted in an aquital

Has also been tested for contributory negligence in an accident claim. Dismissed.
We live in a crazy world!!

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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#52 Post by TC1474 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:54 am

Bianco2564 wrote: Fair enough,but what about?
The exemption for mopeds is only paragraph (g)?
Did you read what was said? in the answer I gave with regards to legality :roll:

The post and original question was about the tread depth. It was not about cuts, bulges or anything else as I stated, it was simply asking the question about tread depth and was specifically for 49cc machines.

If it has cuts, bulges, cords showing or anything like that, then it becomes a defective tyre under the legislation and is a different issue. But for the purpose of the tread, it is legal.

I qualified it with

(c)Nothing in paragraph (1)(g) applies to a motorcycle with an engine capacity which does not exceed 50 cc.

Paragraph (1)(g) relates to the tread depth and pattern.
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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#53 Post by someone » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:00 pm

TC1474 wrote:Did you read what was said? in the answer I gave with regards to legality :roll:
In fairness, it is a valid point Bianco2564 raises. Especially as you say this has been ruled on in court.

Paragraph (1)(f) does apply to vehicles of 49cc or less, there is no exemption given as there is for paragraph (1)(g). And it specifically regards the original tread pattern of the tyre, it has nothing to do with things like cuts or bulges so I am unsure why you even mentioned those.

For a court to have ruled that that tyre was legal they would have had to either ignored paragraph (1)(f) or interpreted in a specific way. That this is the case is also shown in the Highway Code only say "should" and not "MUST" in respective of moped tread.

So I do not think it unreasonable to ask why this paragraph, which seems to be still the current law, did not affect the legality of the tyre when it is the issue being discussed.

The only amendment I can see to paragraph (1)(f) was the one the 1990 fourth amendment that exempted it for "passenger vehicles other than motor cycles" when adding the more stringent requirements for a 1.6mm tread depth in order to comply with European regulation 89/459/EEC.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1990 ... ion/9/made

No one is disagreeing with you that it is legal. We are just wondering why when the law seems to require "the base of any groove which showed in the original tread pattern of the tyre" to be "clearly visible" regardless of engine size.

The only guess I could make from the picture is that the "base of any groove" has been taken to mean the start of the grooves on the outermost part of the tyre, as those are still visible on the right. But I think most of us would naturally assume the base to mean the bottom, which would require the tread to remain some depth, no matter how minute, in order for the shape of the whole grove to remain clearly visible.
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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#54 Post by mas101 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:11 pm

TC1474 wrote:
(c)Nothing in paragraph (1)(g) applies to a motorcycle with an engine capacity which does not exceed 50 cc.

Had it been 50cc, then it would be illegal. 1cc can make all the difference.

If you want another I will come up with something....
Since we're playing technicalities....

50cc would still be legal, it would need to be >50cc

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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#55 Post by TC1474 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:16 pm

mas101 wrote:
50cc would still be legal, it would need to be >50cc
No, under 50cc it is a Moped. 50cc it becomes a motorcycle

Legal definition is Mopeds have a maximum engine displacement of 49 cc
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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#56 Post by Westbeef » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:27 pm

TC1474 wrote:
mas101 wrote:
50cc would still be legal, it would need to be >50cc
No, under 50cc it is a Moped. 50cc it becomes a motorcycle

Legal definition is Mopeds have a maximum engine displacement of 49 cc

mas101 wrote:
TC1474 wrote:
(c)Nothing in paragraph (1)(g) applies to a motorcycle with an engine capacity which does not exceed 50 cc.

Had it been 50cc, then it would be illegal. 1cc can make all the difference.

If you want another I will come up with something....
Since we're playing technicalities....

50cc would still be legal, it would need to be >50cc
You said Motorcycle though
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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#57 Post by Bianco2564 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:28 pm

TC1474 wrote:
Bianco2564 wrote: Fair enough,but what about?
The exemption for mopeds is only paragraph (g)?
Did you read what was said? in the answer I gave with regards to legality :roll:

The post and original question was about the tread depth. It was not about cuts, bulges or anything else as I stated, it was simply asking the question about tread depth and was specifically for 49cc machines.

If it has cuts, bulges, cords showing or anything like that, then it becomes a defective tyre under the legislation and is a different issue. But for the purpose of the tread, it is legal.

I qualified it with

(c)Nothing in paragraph (1)(g) applies to a motorcycle with an engine capacity which does not exceed 50 cc.

Paragraph (1)(g) relates to the tread depth and pattern.
Beg to differ your honour, but you asked in the first post if it was legal or illegal, not about tread depth etc?

"Following on from the thread about tyre mix, I thought you might enjoy thinking about this one.

49cc Moped. Is this tyre legal or illegal?

Remember I know the answer so I don't need the regulations and law thrown at me nor the moral rights and wrongs of riding on a tyre like this :wink:

I thought for those of you less experienced, you might enjoy debating it and the question is quite simple. Legal or illegal?"

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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#58 Post by Stu » Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:33 pm

I'm tyred of this thread already :roll:
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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#59 Post by TC1474 » Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:52 pm

Stu wrote:I'm tyred of this thread already :roll:
You and me both

Wish I hadn't bothered now
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Re: A bit of fun on the subject of tyres

#60 Post by Sleepy_RR » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:30 pm

A bit of fun indeed :lol: TC1474, you are such a hoot.


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