Removed from CBT after 20 minutes. What now?

This is probably very rare from all my research on CBTs. But I was actually removed from my CBT after 20 minutes because I was too much of a risk to myself and the other riders and I guess I want to discuss my options.

I just couldn't get it. I found the throttle to be incredibly sensitive. I knew exactly what was happening. Because I found the throttle so sensitive, I'd begin by revving too much to begin with so that when I released the clutch I would just go. And I know 125s aren't powerful to you lot but I'm new to this. The shock of that jerk forward would make me pull down harder on the throttle and then I'd be going too fast for my liking at 15 minutes into the CBT and want to slow down. My muscle memory from 10s of thousands of miles of push bike riding would just make me want to slam down on the brakes and since this was the 2nd part, the turning full circle bit of the cbt I'd just lock the whole thing up and come off. It happened 3 times in 5 minutes. They charged me £80 for bike damage and told me I was not allowed to continue at the risk to myself and everyone else in the group.

They recommended that I do the learner course which is what i sort of thought the CBT was. The 'new rider course' is a 1 hour lesson but i don't really see how that would help. Essentially, I'm going to keep coming off and causing bike damage until i get a feel for the throttle.

Is there any video footage you can post up

was this a twist and go or geared? kinda weird they made you pay for the damage I kinda thought that was built in to the cost and they recoup excess from the people who didn't fall off

do they mean one on one lessons and do they expect you to pay again?

might be worth phoning another school in the area telling them what happened and see what they say

Its was a 125cc geared. Yamaha. The damage was something like i broke the bulkhead thing that held the the display and it needed replacing. I probably didn't break anything and they just saw an opportunity to charge me. I didn't read the terms and conditions like anyone but I thought that damage would have been done under the cost of the CBT and/or their insurance. Part of the reason why I didn't put up a fuss when they said stop was if I'd get an £80 charge every time the bike was on the floor. But they said that I'd have to redo it within the next 3 weeks to avoid paying full price, but didn't mention whether it was discounted or free or anything.

I assume they mean 1 to 1 lessons. I may take 1 just to try and get a feel for the sensitivity of the throttle before trying to do anything like turning because i wasn't getting it. The other 2 guys were and the instructor I think just wanted to move on. I'd prefer though to do this is my own time. It feels like I'd rather just buy a cheap second hand bike and practice all this stuff in the nearly always empty car park right across the street until I can go to a CBT in some from of confidence.

I'd go to a different school - if you haven't got the feel of throttle/clutch control (or even balance from the sounds of it) they shouldn't have tried to get you to do all the other stuff, another school might be able to teach it better. Where are you based - you might get some good school recommendations...

It feels like I'd rather just buy a cheap second hand bike and practice all this stuff in the nearly always empty car park right across the street until I can go to a CBT in some from of confidence.

I dunno how serious you are about this but...

Without a valid CBT any insurance is invalid. Riding without insurance is dumb and if anything happens youre screwed. If you are going to do this you need to find private land and find a way to get the bike there legally

ooor call another school see what they saaaay

You need some stress free learning time, do you know anyone with an off road bike, or a brave person with patience, you just need to get a grip of the basics and I'm sure you will be fine.

Empty car park or field, start with pulling away and stopping first, then move up to first to second gear changes and back again do big circles, when you feel comfortable doing that then move on to slow maneuvers and u turns etc.

Don't get disheartened it's all practice and it's a steep learning curve to start from scratch, ohh and relax.

Charging you every time the bike touches the floor?!? Bollocks to that! Don't give the thieving bast*rds another penny

Get a new school and name and shame these cowboys so no one else suffers their crap. Every motorcycle school will expect their bikes to be on the floor quite regularly.

I was not allowed to continue at the risk to myself and everyone else in the group.

Sounds like you'd make a perfect Audi driver.

I would look for another school as mentioned.

They should have ensured that your were capable of gently moving the bike from a standstill using clutch, throttle and back brake.

At the beginning the clutch with miniscule throttle should be enough to gently propel you forward using the rear brake for balance.

Grabbing the front brake like you do on a bicycle is a no-no but further training should help you rid yourself of that action.

The throttle is not an on-off switch either it has to be gradual.

It sounds like poor training in the sense that your were doing figure of 8's and slalom before you were able to gently control the bike.

It does not sound like you were able or understood using the slow control techniques to gently coerce the bike forward.

Better training should allow you to understand and apply the slow control techniques.

A new different instructor with better teaching abilities might get you to understand and apply those techniques.

If their are other schools in your area email/call them and explain your situation.

I would suggest 1-1 lesson but that might cost you more.

Is there any video footage you can post up

yes.

It sounds very much like the school in question saw you coming and thought they would cream you for more money.

The CBT course is intended for first time riders. It is intended to lead absolute beginners by the hand to the point where they can go out on road with a degree of competence and control and satisfy said instructor that you are safe enough to be issued with a DL196 which validates your licence and allows you to get further experience under your own steam.

In 25 years as a CBT/DAS instructor I had many come through who had never ridden a bike before. Yes it took a little longer to get them up to speed, sometimes they may have had to return because we ran out of daylight or the rider got very tired, but the aim of CBT is for the benefit of absolute beginners and the school and the instructor should give you as much time as you require.

I am not sure if it still applies, but back in the day when I was still instructing, taster courses or starter courses were outlawed because that was what CBT was intended for.

As for the bike? It is expected that bikes will be dropped, damaged and crashed. I used to have to change brake levers sometimes 2 or three times a week and damage to control levers was expected. If the bike was that badly damaged (which to be fair I never had that problem) then that is why insurance is in place.

I would ask for your money back and find someone more suited to helping you than trying to cream you for every last shilling. You are not the first and you won't be the last that has difficulties.

I would look for another school as mentioned.

They should have ensured that your were capable of gently moving the bike from a standstill using clutch, throttle and back brake.

At the beginning the clutch with miniscule throttle should be enough to gently propel you forward using the rear brake for balance.

Grabbing the front brake like you do on a bicycle is a no-no but further training should help you rid yourself of that action.

The throttle is not an on-off switch either it has to be gradual.

It sounds like poor training in the sense that your were doing figure of 8's and slalom before you were able to gently control the bike.

It does not sound like you were able or understood using the slow control techniques to gently coerce the bike forward.

Better training should allow you to understand and apply the slow control techniques.

A new different instructor with better teaching abilities might get you to understand and apply those techniques.

If their are other schools in your area email/call them and explain your situation.

I would suggest 1-1 lesson but that might cost you more.

I managed the slow control once. Once i had managed it once, it was onto all the next stuff. But i don't think I've ever been the sort of person that's like... "Oh there it is. Cool I'm set" I need to keep working at things. I've found another school and explained what happened and they said they're happy to help me out but I still feel that until I learn to control the miniscule changes in the throttle, I'll keep running into problems like i did today. That would be fine on my own bike but I don't want to keep risking bailing and damaging the bikes I'm being provided with until I work it out. As sg pointed out, I feel the best way would be stress free learning time which is what i was saying earlier about walking the bike to a nearby car park. I know i cant do this, but I'm struggling to think of other ideas. I'll try this other school out and see how the 2 hour intro course thing they provide goes. That definitely is 1to1 and if it takes me the 2 hours to get a grasp of riding consistently in a straight line at 2mph then so be it and I'll book another one.

How about getting along to a Get On place and giving that a go?.......

Unfortunately everyone learns at different speeds and what seems simple to some can take time for others to master.

Surely procedures for mastering the clutch, throttle and rear brake at slow speed should have been instilled into yourself by the instructor.

I don't understand the rush to get you onto the figure of 8's and slalom before you have mastered this completely.

It's an essential skill as what happened at the circuit could have more serious consequences on the road.

Probably better you missed the on-road element with what you have described so far of the on-site training.

As for the Training School their priority should be to ensure you ride safely for yourself and other users of the road.

With the sound of the seemingly haphazard training it's maybe a lucky escape to go somewhere else for proper training.

Don't worry your not the first person to have these issues during your CBT.

Six months from now and you will probably be wondering what all the fuss was about.

Id say you were ripped off buddy

I had to sign a form on my cbt basically saying i wouldn't sue them if i hurt myself but also insured if i screwed the bike up i wouldn't be charged.

on my CBT a guy smashed the front fairing and headlamp lol but they just give him a bit of stick and laughed it off.

Seems really poor on them to have you doing the more advanced stuff before you were happy on the throttle, During mine after talking me through the bike they had me sit in neutral and get a feel for the throttle and explained the clutch, then just had me move slightly forward then stop

Dont let it put you off, sounds like you were over thinking things and getting stressed.

Go to another school, relax and enjoy it will come with practice buddy I can assure you of that, day after my cbt i was contemplating quitting cause i didnt feel safe, 2 weeks on ive done trips down a duel carrigeway at 70 on a 40 min journy no sweat

Keep us posted! and lots of experienced riders here who can advise you better than i can.

Mike.

. I've found another school and explained what happened and they said they're happy to help me out

sounds like they're a decent school. I get you want to try learn yourself but a good school will TEACH you how to do the basics and more importantly be safe.

personally I'd try this second place, when I was learning to drive my first instructor was awful and I wanted to quit. Found a new instructor who was awesome and everything clicked into place.

Is there any video footage you can post up

 

yes.

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I managed to crash on my CBT, grabbed a load of throttle and fell off the back of the bike which then crashed through the barrier.. Seems funny now but I was pretty mortified at the time

But there was no mention of paying for damage caused and I still passed!

You really got a rough deal there, good luck with the new place

Go back and get your £80's worth of damage.

Keep your head up and keep working at it, the instructor didn't do his job find one that can and good luck

I'd be looking for another school. I am on my third (long story). After exactly the experience you describe and a number of drops in my first one, they put me on a twist and go because it was too much for me to cope with the clutch and the brakes and the throttle and the levers and the speed and the balance and the steering all at once. Eventually I got out on the road on a scooter and then I crashed it into a wall and broke it. They said they'd let me know when it was repaired but they never did. But they never charged me for the damage, which should be part of their expenses.

I moved to another school and eventually got through my CBT, on a geared bike (which I have had to do for the second time because I am such a slow learner and nowhere near my Mod 1). I had a bad experience there with a rubbish instructor who made me feel like something the cat had sicked up, and I thought this was all my own fault. I am still dropping my current instructor's bike and I'm still on a 125, after 3 years, and I remember well that aaarrrggghhh feeling when it shot forward and all the other things you describe.

It does rather sound as though they are trying to make money out of you. The cost of the CBT is supposed to be to get you onto the road, however many goes it takes. Some people who've never even sat on a bike before can whizz through it in a few hours, and some schools are only interested in them and have no patience with those who take longer. If they don't think you're safe it's up to them to teach you to be safe.

Having never been allowed a pushbike as a child I had serious balance issues so as a cyclist, you are probably better than me. I did choose to pay for some extra lessons before I had another go, but that's unusual. And it was my own choice.

Some people are good at doing stuff but no good at teaching others to do it. Some instructors don't really like instructing. Some schools are only interested in getting people through the various stages, and not really bothered about whether they teach them to be good riders or not. Some of us (like me) need a bit more individual attention. Any decent instructor should be able to adapt his/her teaching style to the pupil's particular learning style.

It took me a long time to realise that if I wasn't improving, maybe it wasn't all my fault. Don't be too disheartened by this experience. I am still rubbish at slow manoeuvres, which is holding me back, but more than capable of doing anything they will ask me to do in Mod 2 (if only I could get past Mod 1!) and seriously, this isn't something I say often, but if I can do it, anybody can do it.

Man it sucks but it definitely sounds like they took you for a ride (no pun intended) on that first CBT.

I must admit I dropped the DAS bike on my Mod 1 training 3 times and on the third I finally snapped that damn brake lever (stupid freaking thing give me grief all day) and I paid them £20 for a new lever, but they did say that it wasn't necessary that was me just being me and what I do. Its not my property and although they're covered and what not I wouldn't have felt right about leaving it.

But like a million people have said already the right instructor will guide you through this. At your pace. Allowing you to do the basics and really get a grip on it. I've read about a lot of people maybe having to go back for a second/third time but they've often been given more than 20 minutes and they've spent more time than that working on setting off and stopping safely.

New school should hopefully be much better for you!!

Is there any video footage you can post up

 

yes.

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[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] brilliant at least you have a sense of humour. Keep at it mate like others have said try a different school all the best.

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