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Feeling a bit gutted- some advice please


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Hi there everyone,


First apologies for a bit of a long post. TLDR: Am I crap, or was it badly run training?


Full story:


After 27 years of driving and always wanting to ride I bike, I decided that this year would be The Year. , I am an absolute beginner on motorcycle, though I am a keen pedal cycler, and have a decent speedy road bike. But I digress..


So first thing I did was book my theory test, as it's been a long time since I looked at a highway code, and I wanted to make sure I was up to speed with things before starting something new- I passed on Wednesday :-) Go Me! etc....


So when I first booked my theory I thought that seeing as both have a 2 year expiry, I would do my CBT the next day. Having looked at reviews on the internet I finally booked with a school that has a number of centres in the region (West Midlands) , one of which was about a mile from my house. Since booking I have been looking at a lot of youtube videos of CBT training so I had a good idea of what to expect.


So yesterday I arrived at the centre and was greeted by an appalling car park (pot holes, gravel, uneven) 1 bike, 1 moped and 3 other trainees. One of these was a scooter rider with 2 years on the road, the other 2 were for the geared bike and had significant experience of riding previously (overseas and motorcross). The trainer was a decent guy, seemed very enthusiastic about bikes in general.


So after handing out helmets gloves and jackets we were shown the controls and then began training proper. This is where things started to get a bit dodgy (I think...)


Start - 9 am.


Exercise 1, clutch control - went forward and stopped a couple of times. Was ok, got the basics. Then the others had a go- obviously did it perfectly (not including scooter obvs). Time on bike approx 5 minutes


Exercise 2 - doing a circuit- was ok, a bit wobbly but did 3 laps and instructor said it was not too bad. Time on bike 5 minutes . Whilst the others had a go he asked me about how I felt about going on the road later. I didn't really have an opinion as I had only had been on a motorbike for 15 minutes. He then mentioned that I could upgrade to a guaranteed pass if I wasn't ready, and could book another day. Hmm, for a course aimed at total novices, this seemed pretty early to be talking about failure....


Exercise 3 - going in a circle. I found the balancing of clutch, throttle, rear break really difficult. Very wobbly and uneven. A couple of uncontrolled lurches off course, but managed to recover very ungracefully! Time on bike 5 minutes. Then spent 15 minutes watching the others do it perfectly. Knew there was no way I felt confident to go on the road, so paid 20 quid for the guaranteed pass.


Exercise 4- figure 8- see exercise 4 for results. Time on bike 5 minutes


Exercise 5- emergency stop. 1st one ok. 2nd one lost the bike and came off. Instructor said 'let me look at the bike you may have damaged it'. Then after damage was checked, 'are you ok?'. Priorities I guess, seeing as there was only one bike.....Tried again, skidded again. b]Time on bike 10 minutes (including damage inspection) [/b] Watched the others do it correctly.


Exercise 6 - U-turn. I actually managed this, but again very wobbly. b]Time on bike 5 minutes[/b]. again spent 15 minutes watching the others do it correctly.


We then walked around some cones set up like junctions for a few minutes, talking about what you should do.


1120, end of the day for me. Total time on bike approx. 35 minutes (45 if I'm being generous)


I went home pretty dejected to be honest. Was like having and hour's car driving lesson, messing up the gear changes for 15 minutes and then having to sit in the back seat while 3 other people did it properly!


Now, I have no problem with not going out on the road, as I definitely wasn't up to it, and with a wife and 2 kids I don't want to go out on the road unprepared and eff myself into the side of a car, or hit a child or similar. The instructor was very supportive at the end telling me not to worry and that I would get it in the end, but it didn't really help.


My question is whether this is normal? Is someone with no experience really expected to be able to go on the road safely with less than an hour bike time under their belt? The videos I watched always showed everyone with individual bikes, and in some of the posts I have read on here people were still doing cone stuff in the mid afternoon, and still went on the road the same day. I can't help but think that because 3 other people knew what they were doing, the whole thing was cut short just to get the road ride out of the way early. Or am I just crap...? ;-)


I was about to re-book with the same people to take advantage of the 'guaranteed pass' (it isn't, it's just an extra day), but then I started thinking that if it goes the same way, I'm going to be in an even worse place, still without the bike time to get used to the controls, and to feel safe and confident on the road, and with my enthusiasm severely diminished (and I'm one of the more optimistic people you'll ever meet!).


I've looked at another trainer that rents the mod 1 area from the Birmingham test centre, and who have a max of 2 learners to a trainer (they also do military training apparently). Would I be better to sack off the £20 quid and just go to this new place?


Your suggestions would be very welcome. Just want to ride a bike....:-(

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If you're not happy I'd move to another trainer you need to have confidence in the training you receive

 

I was Just about to type that but glad i did a page refresh :)


As said you need to have confidence in your trainer


And even asking for money in advance seems a bit premature and pushy

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If you're not happy I'd move to another trainer you need to have confidence in the training you receive. Whare in the West mids are you?

 

Thanks Mike, I'm in south Birmingham.

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I think my main issue is not whether I'm happy with them, but whether I should be happy with the amount of bike time I had as a total beginner. I just can't imagine anyone going from zero experience to road ready in 45 minutes of riding.

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I used black country motorcycle training in Tipton years ago, most people I know locally have also used them. Take a look at their reviews and call them, when I did mine it was all time in the saddle even the demonstrations were done whilst we were on the bikes. You might be able to go down and take a look when they are running a course. Tipton might be a little drive but we'll worth it if they meet your needs. I find with stuff like this and tradesmen, recommendation is a good guide

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I'd say definitely not normal. Both schools I went to its was a bike per trainee. No sharing.


I'd look at another school if I was you.


I was on the bike for a good 2-3hrs before being allowed on the road

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If you count up the time like that, as in time spent actually moving, then I would say it is about normal for the sections you completed. But…


It sounds like you are saying that you did not have a separate bike each to ride, and were sharing and waiting for a turn? If so that is definitely not normal for that reason alone I would go somewhere else. Even when just watching others, if you are sat on a bike you are still getting a feel for its weight and to balance. Standing around you are gaining very little.


I would also question the school putting a complete novice with a group of experienced riders, who were only going through the motions, like that. Such a situation can be beneficial where it means the instructor can just monitor the rest of the group and give you more attention, but that does not sound the case here as the bikes had to be rationed out. Another reason against the school.


Do not forget the CBT has five sections, a classroom one on safety, the off-road riding skills, another classroom session about road safety, then the on-road riding itself. There is a lot to fit in, and the purpose of the CBT is only to ensure you have the basic skills to be safe on the road, it is not a driving lesson, so it is very brief and basic. You are expected to learn by gradually building up your experience or taking professional training.


In your description it sounds like your group skipped the first safety session, but some schools do switch the order. Had you continued then you would still have had all the classroom stuff to do and usually a gap for lunch before the two hours on the road, so you can see how it still fills out the day. Also unless it has changed you have to ride around the cones you mention at the end, rather than just walk around them. It was that way when I did it, as that is where you practice shoulder checks before making a simulated right turn etc.


But even so, most decent schools will instead let you spend more time practising in the training area if you are not ready to go on the road rather than just sending you home. So another thing against that particular school. You definitely should have got more bike time for your money.


One thing in the school's defence though, the instructor was actually correct to check the bike before coming back to you. A hot petrol filled bike with a fast spinning chain is dangerous, so whenever you encounter an accident the first thing to do is secure the scene and make sure the bike is not posing a hazard before retuning to the rider.


So to answer your first question, it sounds like badly run training. Nothing you said gave any reason to think you did anything wrong or would not be able to complete the course in a normal environment. Just find somewhere where they have a bike per person, and be more gentle on the emergency stop. The benefit of learning off-road is you can start out a little too cautious but then become a little quicker each time rather than trying to get it perfect first time.

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Thanks everybody, I appreciate the advice. I will try with a different school I think- this experience has left me with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth, So I think it's best for me to start afresh.


And Someone- yes we had to share the bike! I wasn't the first person to have dropped it thankfully- it had a massive dent in the fuel tank! And thanks for the explanation re: checking the bike first, that's a great safety heads-up for the future:-)


Will also put in a complaint too, thanks Fullscreen :-)

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When I did my CBT we each had a bike and spent all day on it with a short break for lunch and other minor breaks when the instructor showed us things. I'd report them and go to another school. As a minimum each trainee should have a bike of their own for the full day.

Edited by mikestrivens
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Might be worth buying an copy of roadcraft off ebay my instructor used it for examples and it is worth a read. After my cbt I used to have 3 hour lessons and there was a stop off at a greasy spoon to go over roadcraft. I had a lot of faith in the instructor and it makes a difference I had no issues passing my main test.

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sounds sketchy as hell!! I can't remember the exact details of mine but....


We had about an hour in the classroom first then went to the practise area (a huge car park of a sports club). Bike each, I think there was maybe 4 or 5 of us at first, 2 of us on geared and the rest on twist and gos. Instructor got the scooter guys going then spent more time with us going through everything. Then another instructor arrived to take the scooter guys (think they were refreshers) out on the roads whilst we did more gear practise and stuff. Then I feel we had a lunch break (maybe 2 / 2.5 hours on bike in carpark at this point?) then discussed how we were doing over lunch asked if we were happy to go out on the road... Then maybe an hour on the road, stopping periodically for a chat about what we were doing right and wrong or to discuss real world hazards and junctions. Back to the school paperwork and a chat about DAS.


I'm pretty sure I was there from 9 until at about 3!

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I would say your suspicions are correct sounds crap, sharing a bike, what were you going to do for the road stuff 2up?


When i did mine there were 2 of us with no experience, by mid day the other girl left in tears as she just couldn't hack it, every one else was either just doing another cbt as current one had expired or had been riding since they were 3, It wasn't an issue instructors were great and no bike sharing.


Start again and don't let the bad experience put you off and don't put pressure on yourself over how well you should be doing, everyone learns at a different rate just enjoy the whole thing it will be over before you can blink.

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flangie


I was a total noob at my CBT last week.

Although we had a couple of hours to learn, it was my first time on a motorbike.

I feel I was starting to get the hang of it before next classroom stage was due.

I failed on figure of 8 and emergency stop at least.

I never came off the bike but did use a foot at times.


I FEEL YOUR PAIN Flangie :oops:

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Flangie have you got a bike yet?

 

No not yet- financially right now I can either get a bike but not DAS, or DAS but no bike! My PCP on my car ends early next year so that will be when I get a bike probably. So I'm quite relaxed about how long this takes :-)

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flangie


I was a total noob at my CBT last week.

Although we had a couple of hours to learn, it was my first time on a motorbike.

I feel I was starting to get the hang of it before next classroom stage was due.

I failed on figure of 8 and emergency stop at least.

I never came off the bike but did use a foot at times.


I FEEL YOUR PAIN Flangie :oops:

 

We'll get there!!

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The whole point of a cbt is to get a good 2-3 hours on the bike in a safe environment to get the feel of the bike before the road. If they can't do that then they fail as a school and are responsible for any accidents that might happen on the road part.

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Grotty car park, gravel - that's all fairly normal (some schools are better than others to be fair). But 1 bike for 3 people? That's not normal. That's shite.


It's a while since I did mine, but seem to remember getting about 15 minutes for each exercise. There were four of us, each of us was given a bike or scoot of their own. But the CBT has changed a bit since then. I've not read up about it, but when my missus did hers, the morning was all talk about gloves and ice other stuff that everyone forgets by the next day, and they none of them got even to sit on the bikes until midday. Of course, there was no way any of them were ready to go out on the roads that day. So she switched schools and ended up in a place where she was a lot happier.


If I were you I'd phone up or visit some other places, explain what happened, and ask them what to expect if you booked up the CBT with them.


All the best.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi all


Just thought I'd post an update on this. In the end i re-booked with the same school on the basis of a) I've paid for it, and b) even if it was still bad it is all time on a bike in the end!


I had complained to them when I rebooked and they apologised profusely, apparently they have a policy of not putting beginners with re-takers so it seems that there was a mix up in that respect. I also let them know about some of the shortcomings we identified here and through my chats with biker friends- there was a noticible 'oh fu**' atmosphere on the other end of the phone and again profuse apologies.


So, that done I went for a second go this week, and the experience was entirely different. Was a different instructor, and I was on my own ( a couple of mopeders were due but never showed, probably due to the heavy rain....). The new instructor was absolutely great, very patient and supportive, and my previous confidence knock was cleared in no time. The instructor did ask me to let him know what hadn't been covered in my last one, so I think there was a bit of an investigation going on behind the scenes... Overall I had as much time as I needed for everything, including about half hour bombing around the car park on my own before the road ride, which was great.


The road ride was great, as an experienced driver and cyclist it was much more natural for me than cones in a car park, and it went really quick. Got some great feedback along the way too. So I now have my CBT :-)


I was originally going to go straight to DAS but I had a lot of fun on the 125 so am going to get one of those for the summer to get some miles under my belt before going for DAS later in the year.


Thanks very much to you all for your advice on this, was really appreciated.

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