Brakes question

Any questions and problems about your motorbike? Ask other members for help and advice.
Message
Author
User avatar
Valko
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 6:33 pm
Gender: Male
Bike(s): MT09
Location: Bracknell
Has Liked: 62 times
Been Liked: 50 times

Brakes question

#1 Post by Valko » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:24 pm

Hello people,


I have 2014 MT09 no ABS. Under light heavy braking with the front brake the back wheel is swerving and sliding. When I say "light heavy braking " I mean light emergency braking.

I have used in the past on my Fazer FZS600 to brake much more harder before I experience this. Also the feeling was more better and the back wheel lock was way much more controllable. Here with MT09 is you brake hard and slide and the only way to get back to normal is completely to get off the brakes. Granted the Fazer is heavier bike but with it I was able to release a tiny bit the brake and stop the slide whilst still stopping hard.

That is very annoying because with the MT09 I can't safely brake very hard.

Does that sound normal to you under heavy braking specifically for MT09 as very light bike or I need to look at some issue?
ImageBiker #556 The neighbour of the beast :D
2017 UK Challenge 100 my map
: yellow bike marks visited locations
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RVPed ... sp=sharing

10/10 Pubs

South Midlands 1/10
Southern England 0/10

Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not.

User avatar
Tango
Moderator
Posts: 14742
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 10:54 am
Gender: Male
Bike(s): Triumph Speed Triple 1050, CB750 Project bike
Location: Huntingdon, Cambs
Challenge Score: 20
Has Liked: 1700 times
Been Liked: 1280 times

Re: Brakes question

#2 Post by Tango » Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:47 pm

Could be to do with the suspension setup......If the front is diving too much under heavy braking the weight transfer is making the rear too light, causing it to lock too easily?...... :?
I feel the need....the need for Speed......Triple

User avatar
Valko
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 6:33 pm
Gender: Male
Bike(s): MT09
Location: Bracknell
Has Liked: 62 times
Been Liked: 50 times

Re: Brakes question

#3 Post by Valko » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:17 am

Tango wrote:
Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:47 pm
Could be to do with the suspension setup......If the front is diving too much under heavy braking the weight transfer is making the rear too light, causing it to lock too easily?...... :?
I am 110kg heavy guy, the front preload is dialed up a lot 2 lines showing only and I do not feel any huge diving.
ImageBiker #556 The neighbour of the beast :D
2017 UK Challenge 100 my map
: yellow bike marks visited locations
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RVPed ... sp=sharing

10/10 Pubs

South Midlands 1/10
Southern England 0/10

Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not.

User avatar
Grumpy Old Git
Posts: 7703
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:28 am
Gender: Male
Bike(s): Harley-Davidson FLFBS
Location: Brampton, Huntingdon
Challenge Score: 445
Has Liked: 491 times
Been Liked: 423 times

Re: Brakes question

#4 Post by Grumpy Old Git » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:35 am

Not 'picking fault' but, if you are continually having to 'light emergency brake', maybe you just going too fast in 'iffy' situations?

Anyhoo - Have you checked your tyre for correct pressure / is the wear OK?

Try relaxing the rear pre-load - does it make a difference?

Try quickly releasing rear brake and re-applying when a slide starts rather than just 'easing off' the brake.

With little 'dive' happening, it is hard to figure what is wrong (either with the bike or your technique).

:cheers:
Born to Ride - Especially BLUE (or Black) :D
Do unto others that which they would do unto you - But, do it first! :booty:
Challenge 100 2019: Pubs 10/10 : Dealers 10/10 :

Richzx6r
Posts: 612
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:28 am
Gender: Male
Bike(s): Kawasaki zx6r j1 and a1p 636
Location: Sunderland
Has Liked: 535 times
Been Liked: 170 times

Re: Brakes question

#5 Post by Richzx6r » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:10 am

Does the bike come with a slipper clutch as it would or should help with rear wheel locking up under heavy braking
Keep it shiny side up and learn painful experience from others if you can

fastbob
Posts: 4345
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:42 pm
Gender: Male
Bike(s): gsxr1100 wp and er5
Location: Coventry
Has Liked: 2382 times
Been Liked: 1875 times

Re: Brakes question

#6 Post by fastbob » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:23 am

I've had the same rear pads in my GSXR for 39000 miles so that raises two questions, am I a dreadful rider or do you not really need a back brake on a bike with twin front disks ? I think the only time I've applied rear brake was to stop the bike rolling backwards on a steeply sloping junction. Maybe you should have more faith in the front brakes .

User avatar
Smithers
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:33 pm
Bike(s): Honda NC750X
Location: Vanuatu
Has Liked: 168 times
Been Liked: 85 times

Re: Brakes question

#7 Post by Smithers » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:07 am

Brakes are not worth messing about with. If you don't have a good technical knowledge of them, take them to a recommended bike mechanic. Any money paid will be worth it. :thumb:
Underneath every ponytail is a horses ass.

exportmanuk
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 6:07 pm
Gender: Male
Bike(s): BMW R1200RT
Location: Manchester
Been Liked: 18 times

Re: Brakes question

#8 Post by exportmanuk » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:19 am

Hi

We frequently get people with difficulty braking on our courses. I usually tell them to find an industrial estate on weekend when it very quiet and practice. Every bike is different it could be you are using muscle memory in stress situations rather than actually feeling what happening.

Apply the front brake progressively ( Squeeze rather than grab) If the back wheel gets light then ease off the rear brake pressure.

Start slow and repeat the process several times increasing the brake pressure until you reach the max practice max a few time to commit it to memory. Once you have this sorted you can move the speed up a little and start again. Yes it is boring but if you are not getting a feel for your bike in normal use its probably the safest way.

But as someone else has said if its happens that frequent that you know its a problem then maybe you need to look more closely at how you ride and anticipate hazards

TimR
Posts: 1415
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:48 pm
Gender: Male
Location: Didcot
Has Liked: 29 times
Been Liked: 459 times

Re: Brakes question

#9 Post by TimR » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:29 pm

are you sure that when your applying front brake hard you are not inadvertently applying more throttle hence the back feeling unsettled

as your finger clenches the levers ..your thumb will also clench and this can roll rhe throttle on

as unless its linked brakes then the rear should not lock front braking alone unless bike is stalling in which case you need to time your clutch application better.
The woods are lovely, dark and deep,
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Robert Frost

User avatar
Stu
Site Admin
Posts: 32589
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:03 pm
Gender: Male
Bike(s): FJR1300 BMW F650ST
Location: hull
Has Liked: 2878 times
Been Liked: 2513 times

Re: Brakes question

#10 Post by Stu » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:59 pm

The short wheelbase of the MT won't help matters
Don't steal!.... the government hates competition!!!

User avatar
Valko
Posts: 419
Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 6:33 pm
Gender: Male
Bike(s): MT09
Location: Bracknell
Has Liked: 62 times
Been Liked: 50 times

Re: Brakes question

#11 Post by Valko » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:49 pm

Stu wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:59 pm
The short wheelbase of the MT won't help matters
Grumpy Old Git wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:35 am
Not 'picking fault' but, if you are continually having to 'light emergency brake', maybe you just going too fast in 'iffy' situations?
Richzx6r wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:10 am
Does the bike come with a slipper clutch as it would or should help with rear wheel locking up under heavy braking
exportmanuk wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:19 am
Hi

We frequently get people with difficulty braking on our courses. I usually tell them to find an industrial estate on weekend when it very quiet and practice. Every bike is different it could be you are using muscle memory in stress situations rather than actually feeling what happening.

Apply the front brake progressively ( Squeeze rather than grab) If the back wheel gets light then ease off the rear brake pressure.

Start slow and repeat the process several times increasing the brake pressure until you reach the max practice max a few time to commit it to memory. Once you have this sorted you can move the speed up a little and start again. Yes it is boring but if you are not getting a feel for your bike in normal use its probably the safest way.

But as someone else has said if its happens that frequent that you know its a problem then maybe you need to look more closely at how you ride and anticipate hazards
Thank you all. It's all of the above.

First I am trying to not go too fast, but when deer pops up on road I have not much choice but to try brake and avoid it.

No slipper clutch. MT09 is too light bike too short wheelbase with too much engine braking. After some trial error I figured it out.
Engine was locking the rear. The cure is simple - me playing slipper clutch and hitting the clutch lever earlier to disengage the engine sooner.
Also not using rear brake at all. I have used on the heavier Fazer to use tiny rear brake to stabilise the bike under heavy braking and because the feeling was better on the Fazer I have got plenty of feedback and time to release a little and prevent locking or even to lock a little the rear without swerve.

On MT09 its locked or not locked there is no middle ground. Just changing my riding habits accordingly. I wish I have kept the Fazer now :crybaby:
ImageBiker #556 The neighbour of the beast :D
2017 UK Challenge 100 my map
: yellow bike marks visited locations
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1RVPed ... sp=sharing

10/10 Pubs

South Midlands 1/10
Southern England 0/10

Adrian Monk: Unless I'm wrong, which, you know, I'm not.

fastbob
Posts: 4345
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:42 pm
Gender: Male
Bike(s): gsxr1100 wp and er5
Location: Coventry
Has Liked: 2382 times
Been Liked: 1875 times

Re: Brakes question

#12 Post by fastbob » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:52 pm

You could always put some shit quality pads in it . See if there are any Chinese no name cheapies on ebay . It won't lock up then , probably.:thumb:

Snod Blatter
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:07 pm
Gender: Male
Bike(s): CBX250RS-E CB250N Two Fifty TRX850 K100RS Z250SL
Location: Leicester
Has Liked: 458 times
Been Liked: 196 times

Re: Brakes question

#13 Post by Snod Blatter » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:27 pm

fastbob wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:52 pm
You could always put some shit quality pads in it . See if there are any Chinese no name cheapies on ebay . It won't lock up then , probably.:thumb:
I can recommend Kyoto or Rhino for this!

Weirdly the no-name Chinese jobbies I've tried have had significantly more bite than those two brands..
Image

User avatar
Joeman
Posts: 11490
Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 2:25 pm
Gender: Male
Bike(s): BMW S1000RR, KTM300.. etc
Location: Sevenoaks, UK
Has Liked: 1908 times
Been Liked: 1617 times

Re: Brakes question

#14 Post by Joeman » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:38 am

Snod Blatter wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:27 pm
fastbob wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:52 pm
You could always put some shit quality pads in it . See if there are any Chinese no name cheapies on ebay . It won't lock up then , probably.:thumb:
I can recommend Kyoto or Rhino for this!

Weirdly the no-name Chinese jobbies I've tried have had significantly more bite than those two brands..
Until they get hot then they forget they are brake pads and become ultra slippy frictionless things. Brake fade is the problem with cheap pads.
Image

fastbob
Posts: 4345
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2016 1:42 pm
Gender: Male
Bike(s): gsxr1100 wp and er5
Location: Coventry
Has Liked: 2382 times
Been Liked: 1875 times

Re: Brakes question

#15 Post by fastbob » Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:57 pm

Joeman wrote:
Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:38 am
Snod Blatter wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:27 pm
fastbob wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:52 pm
You could always put some shit quality pads in it . See if there are any Chinese no name cheapies on ebay . It won't lock up then , probably.:thumb:
I can recommend Kyoto or Rhino for this!

Weirdly the no-name Chinese jobbies I've tried have had significantly more bite than those two brands..
Until they get hot then they forget they are brake pads and become ultra slippy frictionless things. Brake fade is the problem with cheap pads.
Which sounds like the ideal solution to locking up the back end . 😉