Valve Stem Seal Replacement Without Removing Head

Oh dear,

Ive just done the piston re-intall a couple weeks ago without spending out on traditional piston ring compressors

I struggled to find 2 that were shallow enough and didnt boost the price of re-installing by another £50 (at least)

I eventually went to screwfix and bought very large wide hose clips (they are Huge!) that worked REALLY Well

I oiled everything and tightened them just enough on the rings so they moved but not too easily

After spending an hour trying to get the rings in I used them and it took about 10 min

They come in a pack of 10

I will PM you and can send you 3 out in the post

https://www.screwfix.com/p/t-mex-stainless-steel-worm-drive-hose-clips-70-120mm-10-pack/28347

I will PM you and can send you 3 out in the post

https://www.screwfix.com/p/t-mex-stainless-steel-worm-drive-hose-clips-70-120mm-10-pack/28347

Cheers mate. I’d appreciate that and PayPal you over the cost.

I need to brush up on the procedure to get them out. Going on holiday for a week, so my plan is to get that engine out next Saturday. Going to be a lot of effort, getting that round the back and into the shed.

Never used compressors or sleeves. As long as there's a reasonably smooth taper on the liners the rings will go in with care.

You've come a very long way from thinking about stuffing rope down the spark plug holes ! Keep up the good work ! I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that this is the best mechanical thread we have seen here for ages. Better than the tripe on the telly.

Never used compressors or sleeves. As long as there's a reasonably smooth taper on the liners the rings will go in with care.

Same here, care and lots of oil.

I have had enough trouble developing software.

My mechanical skill, prior to this was virtually just down to taking out a sump plug.

The bike was suffering from poor starting, gradually getting worse, and blue smoke appeared for the first few minutes on start.

In the beginning, I attacked the fuel map system. Being a software guy, I understand that bit very well. But, really should have understood that my knowledge of fuel/air and engines would have really improved my success, even here.

With help of Tango, I cracked it, and found the correct fuel map. The original owner had botched it.

But, alas! No such luck! The problem persists.

I ran out of fuel on the M5 a few months before, so MUST be the fuel pump. I purchased a fuel pump and installed it. That was a great deal of a learning curve, in its own way.

Still, the problem continues.

Then, I realised that, with the invaluable experience and advice of members, such as fastbob, Tango, SlowBusa, and especially megawatt, that the problem with the bike was far from what I thought. With a basic level of understanding of how my engine works, it made perfect sense.

Engines are by no means rocket science. They are simple, in principle... Air, fuel, spark.

It's the components in between that you need to understand.

Blue smoke and bad start equals? Burning oil.

Where does the oil come from?

Well, it is being pumped out of the exhaust, which is attached to the combustion chambers.

Oil doesn't live in the combustion chambers, so how is it getting in?

There are two ways: valves and pistons.

So, anyone reading this with no clue, and has just found this thread via a Google search, can know that it is entirely possible to deal with this, without having to resort to scrapping the engine, or giving your local mechanic a holiday to Barbados, just for fixing your old bike.

I am totally optimistic, after carrying out a full restoration of the top end, replacing the valve seals, lapping, and cleaning off burnt carbon, that replacing piston rings isn't going to be a major issue. At least now, we know that the problem is not up top, but down below - but those valves were a Mess, and the seals needed replacing. The top end work was absolutely required, and wasn't hard at all. The first valve was a bit awkward, but I quickly found that I could get into a routine and do each valve systematically. It's okay and not that hard at all.

I need to work hard, yes, but I am not shy to do my dirty work, and enjoy every moment. I wear my oil with pride.

This is one journey that I will see to the end, and even if it takes all year, I'll fix this thing and have it running like new.

I can't see myself selling it.

Holiday tomorrow, until Friday.

When I'm back, that engine is coming out and into the shed for the next stage of work.

Pictures and details to follow in the next saga.

Night, all

Great attitude to have mate, when you finally hit that starter and it runs like brand new, you’ll feel awesome!

Enjoy your holiday, sounds well earned

I think the holiday has come at the right time. You can recharge and then get back to it.

I'm totally cheering for you on this.

Yeah quality efforts with this project. There’s no way I’d attempt anything like this without an experienced person watching over my every move! Enjoying the thread, keep the pics coming .

Never used compressors or sleeves. As long as there's a reasonably smooth taper on the liners the rings will go in with care.

From what I can gather from net,the Triumph barrels are integral to the upper crankcase so pistons will go in from the top so a conventional ring clamp would work..

Hyabusa barrels are separate so pistons in from below hence your use of jubilee clips?

I mostly work on 35 year old, air cooled Suzuki GSX, 1100s.

Never used compressors or sleeves. As long as there's a reasonably smooth taper on the liners the rings will go in with care.

 

From what I can gather from net,the Triumph barrels are integral to the upper crankcase so pistons will go in from the top so a conventional ring clamp would work..

Hyabusa barrels are separate so pistons in from below hence your use of jubilee clips?

yep your right about the busa barrels

Never used compressors or sleeves. As long as there's a reasonably smooth taper on the liners the rings will go in with care.

From what I can gather from net,the Triumph barrels are integral to the upper crankcase so pistons will go in from the top so a conventional ring clamp would work..

Hyabusa barrels are separate so pistons in from below hence your use of jubilee clips?

So that's pistons with con rods attached going in from the top and then the bottom ends being bolted to the crank shaft then ? So that means that the crank case has to be split . If I've got that right then " Valve stem replacement without removing head " has now become " Triumph Triple total engine rebuild " this reminds me of something...

I know the feeling of wishing you had never started something

Would there not be access from underneath? A little like a sump cover?

There is very little about it on the net

I know the feeling of wishing you had never started something

Would there not be access from underneath? A little like a sump cover?

There is very little about it on the net

Doesnt appear so.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2000-Triumph-Sprint-955i-RS-955-i-engine-motor-crankcase-cases/301981453628?hash=item464f7f4d3c:g:lSUAAOxyDEVScs7o

Most motorcycle engines require the lower crankcase removing for access to the big end bolts for piston removal.

Older car engines would allow access to the big end bolts by removing the sump, but a bike engine is much more compact and removing the sump plate normally only allows access to the oil pump strainer and gear selector forks. You can see the big ends, but not normally have access to remove them.

Well That Sucks!

Been trawling a triumph site and old threads quotes for piston ring work are £2500+ !!!

It would probably be cheaper if I did it.

Back from a short holiday, due to "adverse" weather conditions. We were in Bideford until the red weather warning on Thursday, and then I decided to drive back to Bristol, which was nothing short of a deadly, four wheeled ice skating trip from frozen hell. The ABS was always kicking in, and the snow got far worse by the time we reached the house.

I made a good decision, because one stretch of road we used was reported to have had a lot of stranded vehicles overnight.

Still, it was actually rather fun, and I even squeezed a couple of cheeky handbrake turns in, to get my car round the corners. Naughty!

Today, I decided to pop the engine out, even in the snow, which is now rapidly melting.

Tank, exhaust, throttle body, and everything off, including front sprocket.

All six engine mount bolts painfully extracted (the bottom two were a bit of a nightmare), and expected the engine to require a few knocks to drop down onto the little trolly that I constructed in the garden, specially for this job.

Would it come out the frame? Would it duck!

Totally jammed in there! It has moved forward as far as it can, and it is down by around 1cm, but nothing is holding it, other than the tight frame. The whole lump has moved, so can't be any more bolts. I don't want to damage the casing, so tried blocks of wood and a mallet. I am at a loss.

And it has started raining... Typical.

Maybe get this out tomorrow and have pictures to show the progress of, once again dismantling the engine, but splitting the crank case open. Maybe.

Guys. I made a massive mistake.

I didn’t check before I put the cams back, that the engine was at true TDC. In fact, it was all wrong!

I checked by setting it to T1, then saw that both cams had the arrows perfectly aligned... pointing outwards!!! How?

How did I screw that up? By not checking thoroughly, working when tired, and without correct lighting.

Luckily, no valves are bent and there are no markings on the tops of the pistons. I got away with this one, but it certainly taught me a lesson.

The oil was absent from the pistons, as I saw when removing the head. But, a lot of an unknown liquid was pooled up...

How badly would this mistake affect compression? I’m going to say, A LOT.

But, please correct me.

I am still learning.

The crank case is still 100% together and waiting to be opened up, after I clean it up.

Is it still looking like a piston ring set is necessary?

Regarding the valve timing situation , wouldn't it be the case that if you rotated the crank 360 degrees to TDC again then the cams would now be facing the other way ? Surely the reason that you haven't bent a valve is that you DID get it right after all ? Don't forget that with a 4 stroke there's an exhaust stroke and a compression stroke both of which pass through TDC but with the valves on any given cylinder in different positions . I would also add that when I suggested that you go the extra mile and examine the bores and ring gap I was under the mistaken impression that the barrels lifted off the crankcase. I had heard of integral cylinders but I didn't know that Triumph were following that practice. Looks a bit like penny pinching to me ( disposable engines ? )

Regarding the valve timing situation , wouldn't it be the case that if you rotated the crank 360 degrees to TDC again then the cams would now be facing the other way ? Surely the reason that you haven't bent a valve is that you DID get it right after all ? Don't forget that with a 4 stroke there's an exhaust stroke and a compression stroke both of which pass through TDC but with the valves on any given cylinder in different positions .

Ah, that makes sense.

I would also add that when I suggested that you go the extra mile and examine the bores and ring gap I was under the mistaken impression that the barrels lifted off the crankcase. I had heard of integral cylinders but I didn't know that Triumph were following that practice. Looks a bit like penny pinching to me ( disposable engines ? )

The cylinder bores are entirely integral to the crank case. Penny pinching, indeed! Everyone is at it.

I took a break and had my sandwich, and now off to the shed to crack her open.

I made a sledge-like platform to get the engine round the back garden. But, to get it round, I had to drag it through the snow on the public footpath, and through the neighbors drive, to reach the side-alley.

People must have though I was going sledding with my engine. You know, like all the cool kids do.

Back to work...

Finished up for today since a 10am start on a Sunday is a bit of a long “day of rest”.

Today I:

• Removed engine
  
  Removed cylinder head
  
  Checked valves for damage
  
  Realised that the cams were on fine (thanks fastbob)
  
  Removed engine side covers
  
  Cleaned up disgusting case
  
  Found CORRECT bolts for side of cylinder head on floor of shed (see earlier posts)
  
  Removed crank case bolts
  
  Started trying to loosen crank case halves
  
  Packed up
  

I aim to do more work on it during the week, after I eventually get home from work, and read more about the deconstruction of the crank case.

I have done a lot of research on piston rings and know what each one is for, and why the gap size is crucial.

Looking forward to the next part.