I'm back!

The twists and turns of a thread on a motorcycle forum.

from this

*Cue Eminem song*

Sorry I was gone for so long, after a few MOD fails I wasnt feeling the bike scene so just needed some time to get my head down and find the love again, then attempt the MOD 2!

Normal posting can resume once more! Especially once I have a new bike!

To This.

Religion , now there is a mental illness .

 

I'm sometimes a bit envious of the religious. I think it must be wonderful to genuinely believe that you've helped someone by praying for them, when actually you've done f*ck all.

So am I. It must be marvellous to have an invisible friend who helps you out. Still prefer Santa though he’s less prone to warring, delivers the goods and reminds you why you need to avoid most of your relatives. Top bloke.

The twists and turns of a thread on a motorcycle forum.

from this

 

*Cue Eminem song*

Sorry I was gone for so long, after a few MOD fails I wasnt feeling the bike scene so just needed some time to get my head down and find the love again, then attempt the MOD 2!

Normal posting can resume once more! Especially once I have a new bike!

 

To This.

 

Religion , now there is a mental illness .

 

I'm sometimes a bit envious of the religious. I think it must be wonderful to genuinely believe that you've helped someone by praying for them, when actually you've done f*ck all.

Yup - via cats, dogs, reptiles, taxidermy, amateur hairdressing, haemorrhoids and anal probes. Mustn't leave them out!

if nobody else has done so.. thus far. may I be predictable and just add the one thing missing from this thread.

if nobody else has done so.. thus far. may I be predictable and just add the one thing missing from this thread.

Baby.jpg

Kids with bad haircuts ....

My brother is very religious, active in his local church, street pastor etc etc.

I'm the polar opposite.

I used to be quite the Dawkins in my early 20s but over the years have mellowed and am now very much "believe whatever you like, it's only when you attempt to use your beliefs to dictate my life/the state" that I regress. I even don't say my kids are atheists, I say *I'm* an atheist but they're too young to know either way, they simply have no religion. They can work it out when they get older. If they make a conscious decision (not forced on them by school....) that they believe in whatever then I will honestly have no problem with it. In fact militant atheists annoy me as much as militant religious folk nowadays.

My brain really doesn't get the idea of prayer to sort various problems out. Years ago I would have been quite outwardly cynical but nowadays again whatever floats your boat. I've sat through funerals of people that have died young or because of cancer and heard religious stuff that I really can't get my head around but again, if the person in the casket was religious and/or it's giving the immediate family some comfort then it's their event, not mine.

A few years ago my wife and I suffered a very personal bereavement and my brother never told me but I found out that he'd requested his church hold prayers for us. As a very young man I would have been quite offended. But by that point of my life I actually thought it was nice that he had found some way to help him through the period. And it was quite humbling that he knew my beliefs well enough not to say "I'll pray for you" like others had. Even worse was the ones that said "I know you're not religious but..."

[mention]Gerontious[/mention] is right. How these thread twist and turn Just felt the need to write something on my lunchbreak.

I love how bizarre this thread has become

It's like sitting at the bar with friends hahaha

im a bit religious myself I religiously drink larger on a Friday night

Sunbathing cats... any one presses the like button , you need help .

I think I've found his sister

im a bit religious myself I religiously drink larger on a Friday night

I will admit to being partial to the odd spirit myself.

My brother is very religious, active in his local church, street pastor etc etc.

I'm the polar opposite.

I used to be quite the Dawkins in my early 20s but over the years have mellowed and am now very much "believe whatever you like, it's only when you attempt to use your beliefs to dictate my life/the state" that I regress. I even don't say my kids are atheists, I say *I'm* an atheist but they're too young to know either way, they simply have no religion. They can work it out when they get older. If they make a conscious decision (not forced on them by school....) that they believe in whatever then I will honestly have no problem with it. In fact militant atheists annoy me as much as militant religious folk nowadays.

My brain really doesn't get the idea of prayer to sort various problems out. Years ago I would have been quite outwardly cynical but nowadays again whatever floats your boat. I've sat through funerals of people that have died young or because of cancer and heard religious stuff that I really can't get my head around but again, if the person in the casket was religious and/or it's giving the immediate family some comfort then it's their event, not mine.

A few years ago my wife and I suffered a very personal bereavement and my brother never told me but I found out that he'd requested his church hold prayers for us. As a very young man I would have been quite offended. But by that point of my life I actually thought it was nice that he had found some way to help him through the period. And it was quite humbling that he knew my beliefs well enough not to say "I'll pray for you" like others had. Even worse was the ones that said "I know you're not religious but..."

@Gerontious is right. How these thread twist and turn Just felt the need to write something on my lunchbreak.

Sounds as though we have a fairly similar approach: I couldn't care less what people believe, as long as they leave me out of it. And by 'me' I mean by extension anyone else who doesn't want to play, or who is too young/old/frightened/infirm/near death to make rational and informed decisions for themselves. Unfortunately it's when people are at their most vulnerable that they are most susceptible to this stuff, and the religious dingbats know it.

I'd say my kids are atheists though, because the absence of belief is the default position at birth, and they haven't moved away from it. But like you, I'd rather they came to a completely contradictory view to mine from their own intellectual efforts than just blindly follow me: my job is to teach them how to think, not what to think.

Prayer is a very weird concept. I can understand people worshipping the dear leader in places like North Korea where you risk being tied to a stick and machine-gunned for failing to be sufficiently deferential, but for free people in a free country to voluntarily grovel at the feet of an imaginary master is an insult to human dignity, not to mention unbelievably arrogant: "Lord, I know you are omniscient and have a plan just for me, but I have a different plan that suits me better, if you wouldn't mind...". And as for the trivial stuff they ask for: does any football fan who prays for their team to win genuinely think the creator of the universe gives the tiniest shit which bunch of wallies kicks a ball in a net more than another?

A lot of people say that religion provides consolation, but if it's false consolation it's worthless. A few years ago I was talking to someone who lost a child to cancer, who said that they took comfort from the fact that they were looking down on them from heaven. Although obviously I said nothing, I couldn't think of anything worse: imagine if one of your kids was in heaven, surrounded by complete strangers, separated from the home and family they loved, able to see and hear you but completely unable to make contact... I don't know how any thinking person could draw any comfort from that - it would be an almost unendurable mental torment.

But the worst thing about heaven would be that I'd be surrounded for eternity by every religious nutter I'd ever encountered, except now they'd know they were right!

I love how bizarre this thread has become

It's like sitting at the bar with friends hahaha

Is your round in this bar if so I'm in

That's not really very accurate I would buy the first round I dislike very much folk who shirk the collective respoibility of helping to keep a group hydrated.

I have no issues with those that just want to get there own, it's the ones that have 5 drinks and then remember they need to be somewhere else, or just never seem to make it to the bar.

A lot of people say that religion provides consolation, but if it's false consolation it's worthless. A few years ago I was talking to someone who lost a child to cancer, who said that they took comfort from the fact that they were looking down on them from heaven. Although obviously I said nothing, I couldn't think of anything worse: imagine if one of your kids was in heaven, surrounded by complete strangers, separated from the home and family they loved, able to see us and hear you but completely unable to make contact... I don't know how any thinking person could draw any comfort from that - it would be an almost unendurable mental torment.

Well I hinted at it earlier, I'd just as well go the whole hog. We lost our daughter unexpectedly at 11 weeks old. A normal day became a very abnormal one. Just like that. As crap as you can probably imagine.

To me she died that day and that was that, the atoms that made her have been recycled. Matter can only become other matter in physics. Don't ask me where that matter came from in the first place, I really don't know. I know that to me suddenly introducing the idea that "well a divine being created it of course" doesn't actually solve that dilemma, because that in turn doesn't explain where the blazes said creator came from themselves *

But I get more wonder and amazement out of the fact that a lot of the atoms within us were formed within stars, in billions of years one or some of the atoms that made up our daughter may once again be part of a star.

No idea of heaven works for me. When ever anyone said she was with the angels, or now in heaven... well... that hurt. For all the reasons you said. And especially when coupled with "I know you don't believe in heaven but I believe that she...." like I mentioned earlier. Never, ever say that to a grieving person. On the flip side (and I'm not saying you would, in fact you've said so already) never ever say to someone who believes in heaven "I know you believe your loved one is in heaven, but I believe that...."

Similar to all this, my brother-in-law died in a work accident 11 years ago. No-one expects to go to work and not come home that day. He left two daughters. He wasn't religious at all, but his mum was a methodist and organised a religious funeral. My sister went along with it. I was sat at the funeral looking at my two nieces as the minister was saying how God had a bigger plan for my brother-in-law. And I was just thinking "what, God who has being around since forever couldn't wait a few more years?" But that and people acknowledging my lack of religion and then lecturing me i's about as angry as I've ever been, dwelling on it won't get me anywhere.

*But hey, if that still works for you, groovy. Maybe it's a faith thing I don't have, and as I said earlier today I'm not out any more to change anyone's mind

I love how bizarre this thread has become

It's like sitting at the bar with friends hahaha

 

Is your round in this bar if so I'm in

That's not really very accurate I would buy the first round I dislike very much folk who shirk the collective respoibility of helping to keep a group hydrated.

I have no issues with those that just want to get there own, it's the ones that have 5 drinks and then remember they need to be somewhere else, or just never seem to make it to the bar.

I flipping hate rounds. I just buy my own and make it clear from the outset that that's what I'll be doing.

A lot of people say that religion provides consolation, but if it's false consolation it's worthless. A few years ago I was talking to someone who lost a child to cancer, who said that they took comfort from the fact that they were looking down on them from heaven. Although obviously I said nothing, I couldn't think of anything worse: imagine if one of your kids was in heaven, surrounded by complete strangers, separated from the home and family they loved, able to see us and hear you but completely unable to make contact... I don't know how any thinking person could draw any comfort from that - it would be an almost unendurable mental torment.

 

Well I hinted at it earlier, I'd just as well go the whole hog. We lost our daughter unexpectedly at 11 weeks old. A normal day became a very abnormal one. Just like that. As crap as you can probably imagine.

To me she died that day and that was that, the atoms that made her have been recycled. Matter can only become other matter in physics. Don't ask me where that matter came from in the first place, I really don't know. I know that to me suddenly introducing the idea that "well a divine being created it of course" doesn't actually solve that dilemma, because that in turn doesn't explain where the blazes said creator came from themselves *

But I get more wonder and amazement out of the fact that a lot of the atoms within us were formed within stars, in billions of years one or some of the atoms that made up our daughter may once again be part of a star.

No idea of heaven works for me. When ever anyone said she was with the angels, or now in heaven... well... that hurt. For all the reasons you said. And especially when coupled with "I know you don't believe in heaven but I believe that she...." like I mentioned earlier. Never, ever say that to a grieving person. On the flip side (and I'm not saying you would, in fact you've said so already) never ever say to someone who believes in heaven "I know you believe your loved one is in heaven, but I believe that...."

Similar to all this, my brother-in-law died in a work accident 11 years ago. No-one expects to go to work and not come home that day. He left two daughters. He wasn't religious at all, but his mum was a methodist and organised a religious funeral. My sister went along with it. I was sat at the funeral looking at my two nieces as the minister was saying how God had a bigger plan for my brother-in-law. And I was just thinking "what, God who has being around since forever couldn't wait a few more years?" But that and people acknowledging my lack of religion and then lecturing me i's about as angry as I've ever been, dwelling on it won't get me anywhere.

*But hey, if that still works for you, groovy. Maybe it's a faith thing I don't have, and as I said earlier today I'm not out any more to change anyone's mind

That’s more pain than I have the ability to imagine.

But I get more wonder and amazement out of the fact that a lot of the atoms within us were formed within stars, in billions of years one or some of the atoms that made up our daughter may once again be part of a star.

"Every mountain, every rock on this planet, every living thing, every piece of you and me was forged in the furnaces of space. Every atom in our bodies was formed not on Earth, but was created in the depths of space, through the epic life-cycle of the stars." - Brian Cox

The reality of our universe and our place in it is truly so much more beautiful and wondrous than any manufactured version.

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” - Carl Sagan

...now very much "believe whatever you like, it's only when you attempt to use your beliefs to dictate my life/the state" that I regress...In fact militant atheists annoy me as much as militant religious folk nowadays.

Yeah this sums up my views on it all pretty well. If people ask me I say I'm agnostic in the sense that I fully admit I am human, with all the limitations of a human and therefore I am not big headed enough to think I have the answers to any of that stuff.

You do you, I'll bimble along in my lane, don't yell at me and we're all good!

My mums has her beliefs, I wouldn't say that she's religious because it's not like she believes in the man in the sky who sent his only son... Blah Blah. But she does believe in putting good into the world wherever possible, of helping your fellow man and that if there is something after death she only hopes her loved ones are happy / comfortable / at peace.

I think she raised me right with some of these ideas, not sure all of them stuck, but I find myself wanting to put a little more happiness and help into the world if I can, but not because I'm being judged on every action by the big beardy in the sky.

Bill and Teds " Be excellent to each other"

Sans, I cannot imagine what you've been through, I only hope you're doing as well as you can be now x

I will respect anyone's beliefs and their freedom to have those beliefs. Whatever gets you through life smoothly I guess!

I only get annoyed if it's used to judge me, forced on me etc etc. Like veganism. Love vegan food, I can't eat much dairy due to intolerance so sometimes it's easier to just order the vegan options on a menu, but I hate the militant veganism that surrounds.

Bill and Teds " Be excellent to each other"

One of my favourites:

Sans, I cannot imagine what you've been through, I only hope you're doing as well as you can be now x

Yes thanks, you never get over something like that. It changes everything about you. It's effectively a big part of me that I carry around every day. Some people never talk about it, some are quite open, some are in the middle. Hopefully most people find what works for them. I'm at the open end of the spectrum, because that's what helps me personally.

We've done lots of awareness and fundraising work for two wonderful charities that have helped us on and after that day, and through one of them I work supporting bereaved families if they need it. It can be hard emotional work but since men are often just told to "be strong" (I was lucky that my family, friends and work colleagues didn't sign up to that view) it is very fulfilling for me and helps me feel that something positive has come out of it. We've also taken part in research studies (both to find a cause and maybe help other families not go through the same in the future), again hopefully positive stuff out of it.

Bill and Teds " Be excellent to each other"

 

One of my favourites:

2vfjsi.jpg

I like Jim, hes funny and makes some pretty good points in his stand up routines.

His gun speech was good.

Tad offensive mind

I like Jim...

...

Tad offensive mind

He is Australian, you know! His Oscar Pistorius routine made me laugh:

"Of course he shot her through the door - he's one of the few people who couldn't have kicked it down. Boing!"