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Trans confusion


MarkW
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No, what you've just posted hasn't made me think I'm looking at it the wrong way.


Feminine here is being defined as a lack of body hair, which is more a societal norm that people are (as proven by your post) expected to conform to.

 

I still think you've got the wrong idea: I didn't say that in order to look feminine you shouldn't have any body hair, nor did I suggest that society sees this as the norm. The fact is that a very hairy man who puts on fishnet stockings does not look like a woman with a liberated attitude to personal grooming: he looks like a man in fishnet stockings. That's part of what I suspect the issue is - that people see him less as someone in genuine transition than as some sort of fetishist.

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Kids are always going to emulate their parents, they influence them on a daily basis but at the end of the day they are just clothes and names. The school will have safe guarding regs in place and I'm sure everything will be managed in what will no doubt be a delicate situation.


Eddie izzard puts it in a brilliant way as ever.

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I like Eddie Izzard, always been a fan. I have noticed that as he gets older his make up (which used to be well applied and subtle) has gotten thicker and more garish (drag queen style). He is definitely going the 'mutton dressed as lamb' route with aging.

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The boy needs to be told if he still feels that way when he's 16 he can then change his sex etc. He's definitely been influenced by his dad.

 

I was thinking that it was all very bizarre that he seemly was making his son follow suit... but just a thought or two...


1. what if Dad (or mum) isn't actually trans but his child had said he was unhappy and would rather be a girl but was scared so dad gave him support by just going about his day dressed like a woman?

2. Some kids are more experimental than others. Perhaps he decided he wanted to be a girl and both that parents went along with it as well as the teachers? He could be a boy again tomorrow.


Im just trying to think if there's an other explanation that just 'dad changes gender and forces son to do the same' :scratch:


EDIT: Also what [mention]Gin[/mention] said. I had a work colleague who went MtF and three years on it does seem odd to think of her as her "he" past. She's not a girly girl (just like me really!), but most definitely has always been a girl, it just works if that makes sense, even if initially she didn't look fem.

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I dunno - he's been dressing this way for a couple of years at least, and his son has behavioural issues that I think would make him fairly immune to what his classmates thought.


I was talking to my neighbour about this as we were walking back from school yesterday, and his view is that it's a boy wanting to be like his father, and a father who is happy to indulge him - for whatever reason. I guess that makes sense.


If nothing else, the way the teachers have dealt with it was yet another reminder of how far things have progressed since my day: When I was at primary school I had absolutely no interest in football (I still don't) which, according to the headmaster, marked me out as a homosexual. :shock:

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EDIT: Also what @Gin said. I had a work colleague who went MtF and three years on it does seem odd to think of her as her "he" past. She's not a girly girl (just like me really!), but most definitely has always been a girl, it just works if that makes sense, even if initially she didn't look fem.

 

I've never been attracted to girly girls: my wife is definitely more Ellen Ripley than Audrey Hepburn! :D


About 25 years ago I met my first 'trans' person at my local martial arts club. He was a big butch bloke - an ex-policeman who'd transitioned after an accident at work forced him to retire (if I recall correctly, someone threw a fridge out of a tower block during a riot and it shattered his shoulder). There was no disguising the fact that he was a man, but he made an effort to look feminine: he had a decent wig of the sort a woman might actually wear as opposed to the shocking joke-shop syrup sported by the guy at my son's school, and he wore the same sort of clothes as any other woman who came to the club rather than turning up looking like a prostitute. We had a few logistical issues to sort out as there were only two changing rooms (he didn't want to be with the men and the women weren't comfortable about having him in with them) but we worked it all out and everyone was happy. :thumb:

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I've been keeping an eye on this thread since it started, and composed a few responses that I have ended up not posting, cause I'm not particularly articulate when it come to saying what I mean on this subject. But hear goes, my opinion, based on many experiences, personal and from various friends and family members.


Growing up I was constantly referred to as a boy by people that didn't know me, despite fact I have had long hair (past my shoulders) since I was around 6. I was always playing football, playing with toy cars and generally wore "boy" clothes as I found them more comfortable. My parents were supportive, the rarely forced me into clothes I did not like and never ridiculed me for choosing to play with lego, cars and robots than dolls and tea sets.

Did I ever think I was a really meant to be a boy?

No.

I always knew I was a girl, and only once wished I was a boy (when I started getting my periods and deemed bleeding for a week each month to be way to much of an inconvenience!).

I believe that because my family and friends fully let me be who I wanted to be, didn't force me into social norms, the question of my gender never really came up.

Granted, there are kids out there who do feel like they were born in the wrong body. But I do wonder if a percentage of kids who want to change genders, simply feel that way because they conform more to the opposite gender stereotype.


Until we do away with gender stereotypes completely, there will always be a level of confusion. Until we genuinely accept everyone for who they are, without questions or subconsciously assigning labels to people (gay, straight, man, women, intersex, weird, normal...). There will always be confusion and people taking offence.


Change starts small, but I do hope that eventually, gender will not be a big deal as it is now.

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Until we do away with gender stereotypes completely, there will always be a level of confusion. Until we genuinely accept everyone for who they are, without questions or subconsciously assigning labels to people (gay, straight, man, women, intersex, weird, normal...). There will always be confusion and people taking offence.

:stupid:


Exactly this.

This is why I also support kids clothes and toys just being "Kids toys and clothes", not a whole isle of pink / make up / glitter for girls and a whole isle of army / rough tough / cars for boys.


My best mate (lad) looks rocking in my knee high new-rock ladies boots, with glitter in his hair and I am quite happy up to my knees in mud playing with explosives and mechanical things.


For all that society has stepped forward to allow men and women to be far more equal, we've still got a way to go before it just stops mattering at all.

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The only reason I don't understand why boys would want to play with dolls is that I don't understand why girls would want to play with them either when they could be outside blowing shit up with pipe bombs made from weedkiller.


Ahh... those were the days... :D

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The only reason I don't understand why boys would want to play with dolls is that I don't understand why girls would want to play with them either when they could be outside blowing shit up with pipe bombs made from weedkiller.


Ahh... those were the days... :D

 

or making home made arrows from a stick and a penknife fired from a blackwidow catapult :)

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Until we do away with gender stereotypes completely, there will always be a level of confusion. Until we genuinely accept everyone for who they are, without questions or subconsciously assigning labels to people (gay, straight, man, women, intersex, weird, normal...). There will always be confusion and people taking offence.

 

We're making an exception for Six here though, right? He's definitely weird. :wink:

 

Change starts small, but I do hope that eventually, gender will not be a big deal as it is now.

 

I wonder who's doing the gender stereoptyping though. Maybe some boys think they must be girls because they like doing 'girly' things, like needlework or playing with dolls or whatever it happens to be, and then start changing their clothes, their names and eventually perhaps even their gender. I dunno.

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I wonder who's doing the gender stereoptyping though. Maybe some boys think they must be girls because they like doing 'girly' things, like needlework or playing with dolls or whatever it happens to be, and then start changing their clothes, their names and eventually perhaps even their gender. I dunno.

I personally feel a lot of this comes from phrases or cultural habits that we might not even think about as being gendered.


Telling little boys they shouldn't cry because that's weak, but giving little girls hugs and comfort. Telling boys they've run / thrown / punched like a girl, when they've done it badly or weakly.

Telling boys and men they that can't be the one being abused in a relationship or that it's not possible for a man to be raped.

This can be harmful to both sides.


Even simple things like learning cards for small children that show the pilot / doctor / director as a man but the cards for nurse / flight staff / secretary as a woman.


Even when you get into the workplace where male paternity rights are so lacking and men are laughed or thought to be weak if they want to be a stay at home dad while their partner goes back to work.


It's all little things, but it can add up, it can make a difference and it can have detrimental effects.

I do also think the other side of things, where parents see their young boy wanting to have long hair, wear skirts and take dance lessons and think "Oh he wants to be a girl!" is harmful to.


Like Arwen says, this will all be better when people can just be themselves and gender / sexuality won't even matter.

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I wonder who's doing the gender stereoptyping though. Maybe some boys think they must be girls because they like doing 'girly' things, like needlework or playing with dolls or whatever it happens to be, and then start changing their clothes, their names and eventually perhaps even their gender. I dunno.

 

Basically as [mention]Gin[/mention] has already said. The vast majority of us reinforce sterotypes without really noticing we are doing it.

I'll admit that I still find myself doing it occasionally. Normally when some sup'ed up noise car goes roaring past me way to quickly and drives like a hooligan. I automatically go "arrogant boy racers!". When it's just as likely to be a girl :roll:

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It's a good job boys don't have periods.. imagine how competitive they would become over how much blood they lost. All boys have had peeing contests to see how high/far they can pee. Imagine what they would do with periods??

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I've followed this thread with interest. I'd like to think my views are pretty relaxed/liberal, and agree with the comments about gender stereotyping; however, I do understand the unease when a child appears to be following in his father's footsteps - I expect that there must have been a degree of influence, but how much of a factor that has been is likely something we'll never know.


Anyway, I'm really piping up to say that I used to work for a construction company, and the commercial manager in my division was called Ian when i left. He is now a she called Samantha, and I have to say that i'm very impressed with the support he appears to have received from the company, and the manner in which my industry has embraced the change.


I don't know that I'm entirely comfortable with the some of the things that I read/hear about gender, but I do think we need to move away from a position where societal norms are allowed to define who we are, and who we want to be. (As an aside, I find conversations with my daughter about this kind of thing very illuminating.)

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It's a good job boys don't have periods.. imagine how competitive they would become over how much blood they lost. All boys have had peeing contests to see how high/far they can pee. Imagine what they would do with periods??

 


Using sheep as tampons .

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I do understand the unease when a child appears to be following in his father's footsteps - I expect that there must have been a degree of influence, but how much of a factor that has been is likely something we'll never know.

 

Heaven forbid that a child might follow in a parents footsteps 🤔

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I do understand the unease when a child appears to be following in his father's footsteps - I expect that there must have been a degree of influence, but how much of a factor that has been is likely something we'll never know.

 

Heaven forbid that a child might follow in a parents footsteps 🤔

 

If it starts to dress as a cross between a clown and a prostitute then yeh .

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I do understand the unease when a child appears to be following in his father's footsteps - I expect that there must have been a degree of influence, but how much of a factor that has been is likely something we'll never know.

 

Heaven forbid that a child might follow in a parents footsteps 🤔

 

In these specific circumstances, but then you knew that.

Edited by learningtofly
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Guest Richzx6r

It's a good job boys don't have periods.. imagine how competitive they would become over how much blood they lost. All boys have had peeing contests to see how high/far they can pee. Imagine what they would do with periods??

 

Just saying mine would be worse than yours lol :tumble:

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Guest Richzx6r

It's a good job boys don't have periods.. imagine how competitive they would become over how much blood they lost. All boys have had peeing contests to see how high/far they can pee. Imagine what they would do with periods??

 


Using sheep as tampons

 

Dont be leaving badgers and ferrets out......maybe the odd cat at times of desperation

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All boys have had peeing contests to see how high/far they can pee.

 

In my first school there was a row of small windows directly above the urinals that would be open in the summer. I'm sure you can guess the rest of my story :lol:

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