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If God either hasn't got a plan or has one that He is unwilling to change, then what purpose does prayer serve?

I said neither of those things.

Since God doesn't tell us in advance what His plans are His will can only be divined retrospectively, in which case what was the point of the conversation?

Sometimes he does... and sometimes the point of the conversation is to have a conversation. Do you always ask yourself what the point of a conversation is with someone you love?

By the way, this is a conversation that is far more fun over a beer.

Do you always ask yourself what the point of a conversation is with someone you love?

Err... have you met my wife?

Sometimes he does...

How?

Do you always ask yourself what the point of a conversation is with someone you love?

 

Err... have you met my wife?

Ha! Well of course it's worth asking the question "What's the point of this conversation?" Other times, having a conversation is simply an indication that the relationship is alive, and needs no further justification.

Sometimes he does...

 

How?

Much of the Bible is God revealing what he's going to do. Much of it is explanation of what he's done. However, all of it is revelation of who he is and what he's like, and where we fit into the picture - those are the primary purposes of it.

Do you always ask yourself what the point of a conversation is with someone you love?

 

Err... have you met my wife?

Ha! Well of course it's worth asking the question "What's the point of this conversation?" Other times, having a conversation is simply an indication that the relationship is alive, and needs no further justification.

I was going to say "Yes, but my wife gives me definite answers and doesn't leave me trying to divine her meaning from silence."

Then I thought "Hang on a minute..."

OK kids, simply rearrange the following entities into the proper order:

The Masses > Religion > Obedience > Political Power > Control > Money.

Except you won't have to. It's obvious.....isn't it?

Much of the Bible is God revealing what he's going to do. Much of it is explanation of what he's done. However, all of it is revelation of who he is and what he's like, and where we fit into the picture - those are the primary purposes of it.

Errrr.... .. "God" needs a 2000 year old text to reveal what "he's" going to do? Bit late in the day, eh?

You can't explain what "he's done", 'cos nobody did anything. It just happened. No pre-ordainment, no nothing. Else why bother trying to do anything - 'cos it won't make any difference?

"He" is like what those who would control you want "him" to be... otherwise why go to the bother?

"You" fit into the picture exactly where you need to fit to be able to be exploited.

FFS wake up.... It's not too late. You have got a brain - use it. There is a god..... it lives between your ears.

@JesterPilgrim' have you read this?

Much of the Bible is God revealing what he's going to do. Much of it is explanation of what he's done. However, all of it is revelation of who he is and what he's like, and where we fit into the picture - those are the primary purposes of it.

Errrr.... .. "God" needs a 2000 year old text to reveal what "he's" going to do? Bit late in the day, eh?

You can't explain what "he's done", 'cos nobody did anything. It just happened. No pre-ordainment, no nothing. Else why bother trying to do anything - 'cos it won't make any difference?

"He" is like what those who would control you want "him" to be... otherwise why go to the bother?

"You" fit into the picture exactly where you need to fit to be able to be exploited.

FFS wake up.... It's not too late. You have got a brain - use it. There is a god..... it lives between your ears.

Oh wow, you're right. So persuasive. I'm being so controlled - how did you know? Since you have such a clear view of my life, perhaps you could tell me in what way I'm being controlled?

@JesterPilgrim' have you read this?

Yes. Reading Dawkins on theology is like reading A.A.Milne on zoology.

@JesterPilgrim' have you read this?

Yes. Reading Dawkins on theology is like reading A.A.Milne on zoology.

I was always a religious sceptic, but after discovering Dawkins and reading some of his books, he made it clear to me why I was. I'm now an ardent Atheist and happy to be one.

Oh wow, you're right. So persuasive. I'm being so controlled - how did you know? Since you have such a clear view of my life, perhaps you could tell me in what way I'm being controlled?

... There are none so blind as those.....

I was always a religious sceptic, but after discovering Dawkins and reading some of his books, he made it clear to me why I was. I'm now an ardent Atheist and happy to be one.

Cool. So long as you know that the Christianity Dawkins so loves to castigate only actually exists among a handful of American hillbillies. That handful has 6 fingers. He is completely and utterly (and wilfully) misinformed on just about every single aspect of orthodox doctrine.

@JesterPilgrim' have you read this?

Yes. Reading Dawkins on theology is like reading A.A.Milne on zoology.

 

I was always a religious sceptic, but after discovering Dawkins and reading some of his books, he made it clear to me why I was. I'm now an ardent Atheist and happy to be one.

The very term "theology" is an oxymoron. A collection of musings regarding an imaginary quantity...

... There are none so blind as those.....

So... no answer? Just abuse? That's fine, I can deal with that. Just wondered if there was anything of any actual substance in your response. Nope. Next.

... There are none so blind as those.....

So... no answer? Just abuse? That's fine, I can deal with that. Just wondered if there was anything of any actual substance in your response. Nope. Next.

Not abuse, just trying to tell the truth. Unless you regard a statement such as "white is not black, it is white" as abusive.

I’ve experienced and witnessed the hypocrisy of professed Christian people, and too many for it to be a case of a few bad apples.

Mint Viscount anyone?

Forget Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris and all the others: none of them hit upon the ultimate rebuttal to having faith in God. But fear not, for I have:

[mention]JesterPilgrim[/mention]: Does your church have a lightning conductor?

There - Game, Set and Match to me, I think.

now those viscounts are tasty

Not abuse, just trying to tell the truth. Unless you regard a statement such as "white is not black, it is white" as abusive.

Ah, abuse wrapped in "truth" claimed as absolute and inarguable. The best kind of abuse. Pretty much the kind that leads to precisely what you're accusing me of being victim to, but don't worry about it, carry on.

I’ve experienced and witnessed the hypocrisy of professed Christian people, and too many for it to be a case of a few bad apples.

Take the adjective "Christian" out of that sentence, and it remains entirely true.

Cool. So long as you know that the Christianity Dawkins so loves to castigate only actually exists among a handful of American hillbillies. That handful has 6 fingers. He is completely and utterly (and wilfully) misinformed on just about every single aspect of orthodox doctrine.

Is he? Examples, please.

And in any case, we all know what "orthodox doctrine" has gifted us. Some of the worst and bloodiest conflicts ever to have disgraced the concept of "civilisation".

Just another tool to divide us.

Cool. So long as you know that the Christianity Dawkins so loves to castigate only actually exists among a handful of American hillbillies. That handful has 6 fingers. He is completely and utterly (and wilfully) misinformed on just about every single aspect of orthodox doctrine.

Is he? Examples, please.

And in any case, we all know what "orthodox doctrine" has gifted us. Some of the worst and bloodiest conflicts ever to have disgraced the concept of "civilisation".

Just another tool to divide us.

I don't have a copy to hand, but basically - every page of the God Delusion and every reference he makes to what he thinks Christians believe.

And I'm not going to justify disgraces of "civilisation", but I like how folk conveniently forget the success of civilisation which orthodox doctrine has actually gifted us with.