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Game of Thrones


Gin
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Its amazing how my opinions on some characters have changed. Ive loved jorah since day one, but i also loved Daenerys, though she's grown tiresome now and i just want her to go away, gone from hating jaime to really rooting for him now.

After this latest episode I'm pretty sure they're deliberately making her unlikable and quite likely they're going to send her Mad like her family line is known for, setting it up for Jon to be put forward as King. (Wouldn't be surprised at this point if Jon has to be the one to strike her down at her height of fury and madness.)


I thought ep.4 was a bit pants. :?


The worst bit for me was ...

the downing of the dragon.


1. How the F did she not think about the iron fleet, which she had been warned about before they left Winterfell.


2. Why didn't she wait for the other half of her force before moving in on Kings Landing,


3. How did she not See them from the sky?! (and no, that rock would not have hidden a whole fleet from a dragon hundreds of feet in the air).


4. Pretty good shots to nail one of the dragons three times but somehow Completely miss the other, even when she flew the bloody thing right at them. Almost as if they needed one dragon to die so the final battle wouldn't be so one-sided. :|

 



There were a couple of other bits which ... well were just a bit pants.


ALSO I really thought they were going to explain what the hell Bran was playing at last episode, but I guess not :roll:

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. Pretty good shots to nail one of the dragons three times but somehow Completely miss the other, even when she flew the bloody thing right at them. Almost as if they needed one dragon to die so the final battle wouldn't be so one-sided. :|

 

 



Completely agree with you about this bit. If they could hit one dragon 3 times they would of realistically tried to hit them both.


 



Did anyone else catch the starbucks cup on the table next to Daenerys? :shock:


Middle of the Caribbean sea and I still managed to download the latest episode to watch. Got to love modern technology :lol:

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I've never watched it but I did see a coach load of caped crazies unloading from a GoT tour bus in Tollymore Forest Park when we were there a couple of weeks ago. Some of it was filmed there apparently.

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Did anyone else catch the starbucks cup on the table next to Daenerys? :shock:

I did miss this at the time but saw after on Reddit :D

 

Completely agree with you about this bit. If they could hit one dragon 3 times they would of realistically tried to hit them both.

I genuinely thought it was a dream sequence because it was So sudden, So out of place and So unfeasible!


It wasn't even that it was a surprise to the audience. Neds death was a surprise but at least there'd had been a narrative before hand which put it into context.


This was just:

- War meeting before they march out.

- Conversation of this potentially being a bad idea for various reasons.

- Ships on the ocean (so apparently they left? How's the other army doing? No travel time or context?)

- Dragons in the sky and oh look there's ruddy great bolts pelting at them!


It was so... Empty. It was like they warped to Kings Landing. I felt like I'd fallen asleep and seriously missed something.


This isn't even wondering how the F they managed to not only find Missande in the ocean (She's barely had contact with the Kings Landing folk, how the hell did they know who to fish out of the sea?) but then capture her while deciding to leave the rest of her army to wash up on the shore?


Then why bother the whole Hostage BS with how that ended. Come on Cersei you have Dany and her whole force (like 100 men) standing outside your gates, just mow them down! Why do the dramatics with Missande?


Also you have all these Balistas made but decide in that moment of mercy not to take out the last dragon while you have Dany and her forces decimated at your feet?


It just felt like the writers know how they want the character arcs to end, they know how they want the story to wrap up but can't work out how to actually get it to happen organically and so just bash it with a mallet till it takes shape.


Also, are you kidding me that we didn't get to see Arya and Sansas reaction to Jons parentage!


Last note. He didn't say good bye to Ghost. No pets, nothing. The Monster :evil: That damned wolf lost an ear for you!

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Narrative fell to shit in this season. It's a lot of big moments badly strung together.


I was ok with Rhaegals death. Unexpected as hell. The bolts came from the left, a lot of them missed, and Drogon was shielded by his brother being in the way.

I actually wondered if Rhaegal is dead... Lord of light had a mention, can he bring back a dragon? Was the shot to the neck fatal? Would be a good surprise to see him scrape it or be brought back.


I had a small debate/grumble at a superfan on FB who thinks the core characters are too protected by plot armour. If you think about it, they always were. We just had our expectations subverted by other characters deaths, often as they were bigged up to be more important. We are at the end and there are literally no more big characters to spare. Kill Jon or Dani then the issue with lineage goes away and everyone falls behind whoever is left. Jamie, Tyrion, and Cersei have their big clash. The Hound and The Mountain. These are big moments people want to see, and it comes at the cost we lose the unpredictability.


I would have gone for the alternative and leave people guessing until the end. But at least the way it is now, we are guessing which of the core characters will snag it. It has 2 more episodes to redeem itself!

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For anyone who has read the books: At the red wedding when the Hound hits Arya with his axe. I threw the book down in disgust and didn't touch it again for at least 2 weeks. During which time I was an emotional, bad tempered wreck. Until my brother messaged me to say that Arya was not dead.

I then picked the book up and continued reading.



I feel about 75% that after yesterdays episode. Jon hardly acknowledging Ghost, Jamie being an absolute arse again, Daenerys apparently flying a dragon for days, hundreds of feet in the air, was unable to see a small fleet of ships on the horizon. Then when they killed one of her children, did not think to swing around behind them and torch them!

Plus all of the lazy, far to quickly moving story line now that a lot of you have already mentioned.


I want Jon and Daenerys to die now. Jon will die by something Daenerys does, and Daenerys will either kamikaze Drogon into Kingslanding or Varys will have her killed and pay for it with his own life. Jamie will catch up with the Hound and Arya on the road south. Some how The Hound and Arya will get inside (wearing Jamie's face?) and Kill both Cersei and the Mountain. The Hound will be at deaths door afterwards though, so will ask Arya to kill him, and she will. Arya will then get on a boat and leave the Seven kingdoms.

Tyrion and Sansa will pick up the pieces and effectively rule the kingdoms together, as a partnership.

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Im inclined to agree on all points about the felling of rheagon/the iron fleet, it just doesn't make sense


Ive started to dislike dany since she ousted jorah when she learned of his original intentions to betray her, despite the fact he had proven himself over and over again. Her slow descent into madness was subtle to begin with but now its too in your face and they could have gone about it better as it being a bit of a slow burner, for me, was working, she was becoming fixated even back then.


I think with ghost, i am disagreeing with the majority i think, i dont think he could face that emotional goodbye - he didnt want ghost to follow him, as together they have been through so much and ghost just looked so worn that and jon probably isnt sure whether he will ever come back north and doesnt want ghost either dead with him or stuck in the south for one reason or another. I kinda think if he had gone to pet him/hig him whatver, he my have not been able to let him go. Thats my thoughts anyway. Id did proper tug at the oldnheart stings though


As for missandei, i have never liked her, i think its more the actress tbh, i find her to be quite monotone, never liked her in hollyoaks either hahaha.


The beginning of the episode absolutely killed me off though, was an absolute gibbering wreck

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I also had thought why she didn't toast the fleet from behind lol

 

I did wonder if the guns were able to rotate all the way around?

Would just take a few ships to turn side on and you'd have 360 degrees covered.


I hope that was the case, and Dany decided it wasn't worth risking her and her last dragon this close to the iron throne.

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For anyone who has read the books: At the red wedding when the Hound hits Arya with his axe. I threw the book down in disgust and didn't touch it again for at least 2 weeks. During which time I was an emotional, bad tempered wreck. Until my brother messaged me to say that Arya was not dead.

I then picked the book up and continued reading.

Massive fan of the books and also have then as Audiobooks (happy to share to anyone who want's them).

I know the feeling you're talking about well!


I think when something like that happens in the books, you're bloody gutted but you get the feeling that it was fair somehow. GRRM always writes with events happening for a reason, there's always a lead up (however subtle) and consequences to actions (even if they manage to avoid them).


This writing though actually leaves me with a much worse feeling because it's just hollow... :?


- When Bran got chucked from the tower, you knew it was because he'd extended his luck one too many times, but Not because he himself failed as a climber.

- When Arya got smacked upside the head and was stopped from reuniting with her family after such a long lead up, you think it's because the hound wants to protect his own hide from being killed, then you find out he just wanted to save her from herself.

- When Ygritte was shot and Jon had to find her bleeding to death, you knew they both had to end up against one another.

- Even when Jon was killed, you could feel the tension in the NW building for a good book before it happened.


Though GRRM surprises the reader, it's still always plausible.


Eurons cloaked fleet which seems to warp around the coast of the 7 kingdoms to defeat any ships Dany tries to attack with. :|

As I've mentioned already, the apparent perfect aim with those Balista, except when they need Drogon to survive for reasons.


This writing isn't clever, it isn't subtle, it's doesn't feel like a natural evolving world like GRRMs does. :(

 

Ive started to dislike dany since she ousted jorah when she learned of his original intentions to betray her, despite the fact he had proven himself over and over again. Her slow descent into madness was subtle to begin with but now its too in your face and they could have gone about it better as it being a bit of a slow burner, for me, was working, she was becoming fixated even back then.

This sums it up well, the transition from the source material and when GRRM was still on set giving advice, to now where the writers of the show have free reign. They've reduced complex characters to one or two base emotions to make it clear where the story needs to go.


Also, like the theory about Ghost, I know I couldn't say good bye to a pet I loved and a final cuddle would make it far harder. :crybaby:


The final thing I don't get is that GoT is HUGE money. I don't get why they're feeling the need to rush this last season out and be done with it. They could have easily had this whole season be about the battle with the Night King and his army, building up the tension for one more season which goes back to Kings Landing and Cersie etc.


Some people may have felt that was dragging it out for the money, but I think it would have been far better than this rushed ending.


Sorry for the looong rant. Just so gutted that a franchise I like this much is dropping in quality, when it was known for it's awesome story writing.

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Totally agree with you on the not rushing it [mention]Gin[/mention]. THey could have ran another 2-3 seasons with what they have and it would not have felt overly long and drawen out.


 

Im inclined to agree on all points about the felling of rheagon/the iron fleet, it just doesn't make sense


Ive started to dislike dany since she ousted jorah when she learned of his original intentions to betray her, despite the fact he had proven himself over and over again. Her slow descent into madness was subtle to begin with but now its too in your face and they could have gone about it better as it being a bit of a slow burner, for me, was working, she was becoming fixated even back then.


I think with ghost, i am disagreeing with the majority i think, i dont think he could face that emotional goodbye - he didnt want ghost to follow him, as together they have been through so much and ghost just looked so worn that and jon probably isnt sure whether he will ever come back north and doesnt want ghost either dead with him or stuck in the south for one reason or another. I kinda think if he had gone to pet him/hig him whatver, he my have not been able to let him go. Thats my thoughts anyway. Id did proper tug at the oldnheart stings though


As for missandei, i have never liked her, i think its more the actress tbh, i find her to be quite monotone, never liked her in hollyoaks either hahaha.


The beginning of the episode absolutely killed me off though, was an absolute gibbering wreck

 

The only comeback I can thin of for Jon shrugging Ghost off is going back to what Beric said to Jon about when he comes back to life each time, he loses a part of himself. Jon has died once, so has he lost some of his compasion?


Personally I just think it was lazy/cost cutting.

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[mention]Gin[/mention] absolutely agree with every point youve made there, it does feel rushed despite making us wait two years, i dont know if any of you watch anime, but i resd something that sunmed it up quite well on regards to the tv story finishing before the books as full metal alchemist struggled with this too. It was completed before the manga was, then when the manga was complete and they had full material tonwork off, full metal alchemist: brotherhood was then released and it was superior in many ways

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@Gin absolutely agree with every point youve made there, it does feel rushed despite making us wait two years, i dont know if any of you watch anime, but i resd something that sunmed it up quite well on regards to the tv story finishing before the books as full metal alchemist struggled with this too. It was completed before the manga was, then when the manga was complete and they had full material tonwork off, full metal alchemist: brotherhood was then released and it was superior in many ways

 

Yeah, really good comparison!

Even with the main long running shows they take breaks of have a filler story line. It's so weird that the writers seem to just want to get the show over with now...


I know that GRRM stepped back from consulting / assisted writing on the show a while back now and I'm sure that's what we're all feeling now. Just that Lack of what made GoT so different to any other fantasy show out there. :(


If I thought he was likely to bring out the next book (or two...) any time soon then I'd just think "Pfft, fine, the series is struggling, but we'll still get to know the proper tale one day" but honestly I wouldn't bet against him dying before the damn things are finished. :crybaby:


Though.... I also hope he doesn't do what JKR did at the end of the HP series and just rush the final book, tying together random plot points just to get it over with.

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You do know it’s not real and they are just actors ....

Gutted they killed the dragon though :cry:

You do know it's not real and just CGI ....

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You do know it’s not real and they are just actors ....

Gutted they killed the dragon though :cry:

You do know it's not real and just CGI ....

 



Yeh right :roll:


I know where they live .

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Just watched episode 5


Spoiers ahead, i know most people aren't able to watch it live (yay for 4on4off nightshifts aligning PERFECTLY for the final three episodes


Ok so. The internet ia RIFE already with people saying it was shit. I enjoyed it


Cleganebowl was amazing, really enjoyed that little scrap, i would have LOVED for the hound to get a happy ending, so shed a tear, loved his character, but his end was fitting and he took the big knob head with him. Cersei's talk to the palm as she stomped past them both made me lol


Alot of people are also moaning about the way cersei went down as well. Ive always loved to hate her character and alwyas wanted her to be literally killed by jaime, but something about that scene with them both had me bawling and i really felt for them both haha. I didnt mind that it wasnt a great big showboating AH HA NOW I KILL YOU MOMENT, I liked the simplicity of it. Theres a few people griping over the prophecy regarding her death, though in theory, it was jaime who got her killed... i may be reaching a bit there, but i loved the whole scene


Arya should have just stayed north - stop being a little bitch and go be with gendry


Also, varys. God DAMMIT tyrion, i like you dude, but you go tell varys that secret, then go and get him killed, dor a smart man, he should have known how varys would react to that news. So that annoyed me.


When dany said to jon, she will rule by fear, it was pretty much a dead cert she waa gunna light up KL. And when Jon saw drogon atrack KL after the bell was rung, i think he knew at that moment when she attacked that he knew what he had to do.


I enjoyed the episode, glad euron is dead. Not glad varys is dead. Tyrion is an idiot. Looking forward to seeing how it will now all wrap up



Also one of the supider theories actually while im here, people saying bran or jon would become the new night king either after battle of winterfel, or bran to help with the KL scrap. Ive seen more than one person comment saying there alwyas has to be a night king. NOW, im not sure about the books, but this isnt the lich king in World of Warcraft. WHY do people think this? The NK was created by the forest children to aid their own agenda and it back fired. There doesnt NEED to be a night king


Also glad that arya didnt kill jaime and wear his face to kill cersei. that was a dumb fan theory as well imo, and its already been done with frey


And to the people saying dany cracked up to fast, come on, this has been alluded to for years. I just think season 8 has suffered from lack of direction more than anything due to having no source material to work from as discussed above. We could maybe have benefit from either another season or more episode as things certainly seem to be more fast paced from earier seasons but eh. Am still enjoying it lol

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I thought it was shit. The characters stories are rushed, the end point is obvious, the characters themselves feel hollow, it feels like every other TV show - predictable good vs evil rather than the "real world" sometimes good people die deal with it brilliance the books had. The CGI is OTT and I've stopped giving a shit about anyone.

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I haven't really contributed to this thread, but I'm a MASSIVE fan and I'm thoroughly enjoying this season; in fact, I don't really understand the criticism that I'm reading across the internet. It was always going to end with some epic battles, and I don't think the writers could have done a whole lot more with the script than they have done. There's been a fair amount of character development and the rapid convergence of various plot lines was an inevitability that I think we should all have expected. Also, there's much talk about the constraints of just six episodes but nobody seems to be mentioning that they're all longer than the previous seasons, so really more akin to 9.


Anyway, I think Emilia Clarke's acting has gone up a level - she's actually quite menacing now - and I have a feeling that Jon Snow now knows what he has to do. Really looking forward to the finale.

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I liked the episode from the point of view of a good action packed episode. But I pretty much, totally agree with what [mention]Hoggs[/mention] has just said.


If this season was slowed down to the pace of season 2 or 3, I think it would have been much more dramatic and hard hitting. Just now it feels rushed, and lots of obvious choices made for characters.


I actually liked that Arya was there. I think this battle is what will show her there is more to life than being a badass. The Hound telling her to leave was right, but I don't think it was done quiet as well as it should.

From my perspective, she accepts the Hound telling her to leave, as they have mutual respect. The Hound does not tell her she cannot kill Cerci. Just that it is pointless as she will die anyways and Arya doesn't need to kill herself in the process. This could have been much better explored, if we had actually seen their journey south together.


The quest now is… what happens to Danerys? Will Jon kill her? Will Arya? Will Sands have a hand in it?

Or will the season end with the northerners returning north. With a mad queen on the throne.

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As an aside, I also think it's clear that a live dragon is no longer a viable option (unless it's Dany that ends up sitting on the throne - if there even is a throne any longer - which I don't see happening). I wouldn't really know where to put my money though, to be honest.

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There's been a fair amount of character development

 

I disagree with this purely because Dany always had a "moral" reason for killing people, either out of revenge, judgement of them being bad people or because they directly disrespected her, This moral code of not harming innocent people which was ingrained in all the issues with the slavers has vanished in 1 day due to the death of Missandre. If when the bells range she had flown to the keep and burned the hell out of Cersei that is fair enough. However systematically burning the entirety of Kings Landing killing hundreds of thousands doesn't sit right. Her entire story is freeing people, wanting to avoid the madness of her ancestors, wanting to rule (I assume) living people. She went from a 3 to an 11 on the madness scale and it's too much. I get they have to make her proper nutjob so Jon realises he has to kill her but other than her looking a bit tired at Dragonstone there isn't enough of an arc. Maybe someone just needs to give her a snickers.

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