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Gin
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Ok so just to start by saying I think this was the worst episode yet; not because of the special effects or the acting.


Effectively I have the same feeling that I did coming out of Batman vs Superman.

The actors in it played the roles they were given amazingly well; it's just a shame those roles were so badly written.

 

Cleganebowl was amazing, really enjoyed that little scrap, i would have LOVED for the hound to get a happy ending, so shed a tear, loved his character, but his end was fitting and he took the big knob head with him. Cersei's talk to the palm as she stomped past them both made me lol

Yes, Hounds end was pretty perfect as his goal has always been to kill his brother at any cost. :( I think he knew it would likely end with him losing his life and that's what made his final moment with Arya so perfect; getting her to realise that there's more to life than revenge.

I hope this is how she goes back to Gendry. The hound helps her realise the horrible truth of war and she finds that actually, having someone who is always there for you is pretty wonderful.


Also Kyburns death was Brilliant! :D

 

Alot of people are also moaning about the way cersei went down as well. Ive always loved to hate her character and alwyas wanted her to be literally killed by jaime, but something about that scene with them both had me bawling and i really felt for them both haha. I didnt mind that it wasnt a great big showboating AH HA NOW I KILL YOU MOMENT, I liked the simplicity of it. Theres a few people griping over the prophecy regarding her death, though in theory, it was jaime who got her killed... i may be reaching a bit there, but i loved the whole scene.

To be fair, the prophecy stated that she would be killed by her younger brother and she was the first born of the twins. Just cos he died at the same time doesn't mean that he wasn't linked in with her death. (Prophecies are fucks like that... )


Also, I completely get his character going back to be with her, even in death HOWEVER if that was the way the writers were going, I really wish they hadn't shoehorned in the Brienne romance.


In the books he slowly realises he's actually repulsed by the person Cersei has become and starts to realise that Briene holds all the same values he does (while also finding that somehow he gets a boner round her!)

This half house, he abandons her after such a huge char arch, was shite.

 

And to the people saying dany cracked up to fast, come on, this has been alluded to for years. I just think season 8 has suffered from lack of direction more than anything due to having no source material to work from as discussed above.

Basically agree. I think in the books, with GRRM writing it will make horrible, inevitable sense that Dany cracks (if he chooses that ending). It will be like being washed down river by the strong current. You won't want it to happen but you realise that it's just the way it was always meant to be and it will Make Sense in the context of the world.


However, this version of it has been BUTCHERED. :| It was like being hit by a tsunami in the middle of a desert.


Varys death was f**king awful, her threatening Tyrion, Jon.... UGH just Jons cardboard personality especially this episode was so bad. :roll:


Basically the writers have well and truly f**ked this one up, I would assume mainly because without GRRM writing the books or being on set to advise (which he hasn't been for the last two series) the writers have floundered.

I am Dreading the Star Wars trilogy that these two have been given to write and direct.

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As an aside, I also think it's clear that a live dragon is no longer a viable option (unless it's Dany that ends up sitting on the throne - if there even is a throne any longer - which I don't see happening). I wouldn't really know where to put my money though, to be honest.

 

I've been wondering this too. I fully expected Drogon to die during the Kingslanding battle. The fact he has came out of it unscathed has got me wondering just how he will get killed off.

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[mention]Gin[/mention] Totally agree about Qyburn's demise - he was a weasel and it was quite fitting.


[mention]Hoggs[/mention] - I think you've oversimplified the morphing of Dany into what she appears to have become. It's been a whole chain of events that have led to it; losing two of her babies, which I'm sure had a profound effect on her; seeing both Missandre and Jorah taken from her, the two closest friends - if not more - that she had; Jon's "news" and subsequently his effective betrayal when he shared that news with Sansa; her understanding that she will probably never take the throne anyway given the near-universal love for Jon, who just happens to be the rightful heir in any event; the end of her love affair with Jon, with whom no doubt she saw her future (as king and queen); the loss of most of her army, the people that genuinely worshipped her...


The list goes on and on, and I don't see that the writers could have done anything more to chart her descent from someone of virtue into something of a genocidal maniac. That's just me, though :thumb:

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I get where you're coming from, I just think it was rushed. Burning the keep and screaming kneel before your new queen and burning those who didn't seems more in keeping. Or at least show her kicking some puppies first so we can see she's all out of f**ks


But it would be dull if we all agreed on everything :cheers:

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[mention]Arwen[/mention] You summed up my thoughts pretty well.


Also [mention]learningtofly[/mention], I am really happy to hear that there are people that are loving this series. I am genuinely glad that there are people that can see this final season as the closing statement that the show deserved and I'm gutted to not be one of them.

 

If when the bells range she had flown to the keep and burned the hell out of Cersei that is fair enough. However systematically burning the entirety of Kings Landing killing hundreds of thousands doesn't sit right. Her entire story is freeing people, wanting to avoid the madness of her ancestors, wanting to rule (I assume) living people. She went from a 3 to an 11 on the madness scale and it's too much. I get they have to make her proper nutjob so Jon realises he has to kill her but other than her looking a bit tired at Dragonstone there isn't enough of an arc.

Agree here too, and as I said before the writers done f**ked up.


Now, I could fully understand Dany cracking if:


She had come to Westeros with her army, her loyal followers and her dragons.

Her original plan being to land at Dorne and start a march up the 7 Kingdoms, gaining the alliance of the important houses and more importantly the people of the land on her way :) ; much like she'd done in the slavers lands.

However, against her better judgement she rushes North to help and is met by the North men; hostile, cold, blunt and completely ungrateful for her assistance. :evil:


Her Dothraki and Unsullied are seen as foreign, barbaric, other and for the people she's trying to win the love of, they represent everything they don't want. The North have had 5 years of constantly being beaten by the lands they know, never mind the lands they don't.


They don't trust her, her people and especially not the big f**k off dragons she brings. :shock:

She's a stranger, a foreigner and she demands respect?

Nah. That's not the Norths style. :|


After she helps in the long fight against the cold winds (which I assume in the books would last a lot longer than one night :roll: ) her force is diminished:

- The unsullied, the boy slaves who had to murder their own puppies, who had to kill a babe in arms that she freed from their torturous life and came to love her as a Mother because of it, have been butchered on the field. They trusted her and she feels she let them down.

- The Dothraki who only follow the strongest of men have chosen to follow her, the strongest of all mankind (in their eyes) and believe in her strength so much that they cross the poison water. They go against everything they know, only to be taken to a land colder than they ever could image and watch their warrior queen get shunned by men. She's lost their pride, their fierce devotion and she again has let them down.

- Finally one of her true children, her Dragon is not only slain by the army of the dead but then raised to fight against her.

This one was of the biggest failings in the show in my opinion, not showing how emotionally devastating it would be for her to have to kill her own child. :(


So the battles over and everyone is celebrating while she mourns the loss of so much. He armies are heavily diminished, those that remain have their own pains (emotional and physical) and she can't heal them, they turn away from their Mother to tend to their own.


She's left to try to return to the Westerosi, who are Celebrating now, cheering with one another and telling bold stories of each others feats. But no one thanks her, no one acknowledges all she's lost to save them. All victories are accounted to their own and she can't join the merriment.


...The bitterness starts to churn in her stomach, mixed with the grief of losing a child in such an awful way.


All she cares about now is getting back to her original plan, taking the Iron Throne.

So when the North men tell her it's too soon, their armies are too damaged, she looks at her Dothraki and Unsillued who have already pulled themselves back into fighting order and are ready to follow her and think "They're just not willing to follow me, I need to show them strength like I did in the slavers lands".


So she marches. Rhaegal is damaged from the fight but she thinks that he's just not healing in the North, one they get to warmer lands and traveling each day, with fresh food, he'll heal quickly. :D


When they arrive at KL, she's told that the city has retreated, that the walls are heavily defended and that she would be better to hit the iron fleet with her dragons while the north men that chose to come with her attack the city along side her foot soldiers.


Only they didn't know the fleet had balistas too. :shock: While the troops storm the walls, her dragons lay waste to the fleet, he anger growing as the balista bolts whistle through the air around her.

Their no match for Dragons though, who destroy ship after ship. :twisted:


In her victory, her pride and her battle-blood she revels in the force of the dragons and their power against those who appose her.


Then, Drogon nimbly avoids a final flurry of colts as she dives towards the remaining ships, Rheagals wing damage proves too great though and her bold battle strategy is again what causes her to have to watch one her children die; screaming as he falls amongst the remnants of the fleets.


Grief and rage consume her as Drogon obliterates the final ships and turns for the city. :evil:

Her armies have broken in but haven't managed to defeat all the wall defenses as they had meant to and so she won't take that risk again.

She destorys the walls with Drogon, the stones melting much like those of Harenhall...


She looks into the streets of the city to see the people running in fear, in terror of her.

Those she had come to save.

She also see's them fleeing to the Red Keep.


Where previously the cities occupants had risen up and overthrown their rulers all for her, these people flee in fear with hatred on their face; hatred for her.

They run TO Cersei, they run to the Red Keep which her Ancestors built, where now a usurper rules from and the people, HER people, instead run TO the usurper.


And so she flies for the keep, determined to burn it to the damn ground if she has to. She will destroy the old rule of this city, these lands and build her own keep anew from the ashes. :evil:

They'll see then that she is the true queen, then she will show them her mercy and her love, only then will she be free from the past.


From Fire and Blood, she will have her throne.


....


From the outside, the North men watch a dragon breath death around the walls of KL, they watch one woman unleash fury and fire on all those who appose her.

Once she's decimated the walls, the dragon flies for the keep, which their men are currently trying to siege and the dragon once again unleashes with it's terrible fury.


The keep is brought to ruin, a smouldering wreck. And sitting in the flames and decimation is a dragon with a queen of fury atop it.


This is everything they remember from the mad kings days, everything they fought against so many years ago and now, they feel they will likely have to fight again because they will never again follow a mad ruler. Not when they have their own King in the North.

Edited by Gin
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As an aside, I also think it's clear that a live dragon is no longer a viable option (unless it's Dany that ends up sitting on the throne - if there even is a throne any longer - which I don't see happening). I wouldn't really know where to put my money though, to be honest.

 

I've been wondering this too. I fully expected Drogon to die during the Kingslanding battle. The fact he has came out of it unscathed has got me wondering just how he will get killed off.

 

I don’t think he will get killed off but once Daenerys gets killed he will fly off never to be seen again like some of the dragons mentioned in the books, or he will become Jon’s new best buddy.

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She went way to far I think , outrageous behaviour with the dragon :?

 

Despite the rushed nature of the last season, I've liked how they've managed her madness.


It's been hinted at since early on "take what is mine with fire and blood" because she was denied ships. She would show hints of this madness when things don't go her way, it was only the likes of Jorah etc who kept her level. It's not reasonable, it's not rational, it's not something you can sympathise with. Like her father, it's like a terminal condition.


I was worried they'd make it more about Cersei pushing Dany over the edge. But a lot of people can say they've met a "Cersei" in life who drove them or others into a very angry state. So I thought it was a great touch she didn't go mad until after the city surrendered. As at that point, the armies could have marched to the red keep and captured Cersei. But this wasn't enough for the mad queen.

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There's a reason writers have haunted eyes and always seem like they need a hug. Give everyone a break.

This did make me bark with laughter; have a few creative friends who have this look.

 

... It's about the approach changing in the third act. That's the sort of thing an audience can feel happening, even if they can't put their finger on exactly why.

...

By placing so much emphasis on the ending, the showrunners changed the nature of the story they were telling, meaning the original story and the original characters aren't the ones getting an ending.

Their substitutes are.

 

I saw someone sum it up as "The characters used to drive the plot, now the plot drives the characters."


Good article [mention]Hoggs[/mention], sums it up well.

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Took me a moment to catch on :lol:


"Why does he care about her well being if he's literally writing a note to tell the world Jon is the... Ohhhhhhhh"


Gutted he died, I warmed up to his character quite a bit. When Little finger went, I thought that he was safe. As they both represented the smartest players of the game of thrones to me. But came at it from different ways.

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Also, anyone else catch Varys trying to poison Daenerys?? I think I was distracted by the notes

 

Damn - I heard it but couldn't put two and two together at the time. Thank you, and that certainly makes his demise slightly more acceptable!

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I don't think I've ever avoided any social / news media like I have so far today :shock:


One person in my office got up early so he could watch it and he keeps giving knowing grins whenever he passes...

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I don't think I've ever avoided any social / news media like I have so far today :shock:


One person in my office got up early so he could watch it and he keeps giving knowing grins whenever he passes...

 

I'm WFH today and I couldn't even look at my phone for fear of seeing something... just blacked out the lounge and watched it before starting my day off in the real sense!

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Ok, so i cant be arsed to type this out again, so i have just copy pasted what i wrote on fb lol


!theres a.spoiler which i have tagged at the end of my reply for the latest/last episode!


The best comparison ive read about GOT is to full metal alchemist. The anime also finished before the manga, and it suffered from it. When they re did it and created brotherhood, they had all the source material and you could just tell. It should never have been finished without the books being finished, and iirc, they were all supposed to have been out before the series concluded and that is on GRRM. Of course i could be wrong on that last part but the point still stands, if the books had been out, the story would have flowed as it did when they had material to work from. I'm pretty sure that GRRM has said 'this is the conclusion i want' but i wonder if he will change it up, seeing the peoples reactions to the last episode haha. I didn't mind the conclusion itself, tbh, though i would have preferred > spoiler incoming for the last episode >

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Jon to have had made that decision himself to leave, the unsullied f**ked off anyway, it had been a few weeks at that point so im pretty sure conversations would have been had about what dany had actually done to innocent people after they had surrendered.

No one killed jaime when he killed aerys targaryean for threatening to do exactly what dany actually DID. dunno, just felt it was a bit shit shafting him like that again lol. This way he will never be able to see his family again like, ever, and i think its a bit naff, or sam! Im sure arya, even though shes off exploring will bob back home from time to time to visit the fam.

Im glad they let drogon live though haha

Edit* AND after everything jon had done up to that point, he was cast aside over killing a queen no one in the seven kingdoms really, other than the unsullied, and yara, gave a f**king shit about anyway!! She literally trashed the joint and was definitely set to f**k more shit up as she went. Though with her speaking valerian, i dont suppose anyone else would have understood those intentions til it was too late.

This would NEVER have happened of jorah was still about 😂

Edit2* sorry haha. Jon could have been king in the f**king north and united the free men and the north and he could have still been happy. Ah man, im so annoyed 😂

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I loved the end of Jon's story - fantastic little twist there IMO. It does seem to have been set up for some kind of Stark spin-off series. Indeed, the Stark kids did okay in the end, bless them.

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I loved the end of Jon's story - fantastic little twist there IMO. It does seem to have been set up for some kind of Stark spin-off series. Indeed, the Stark kids did okay in the end, bless them.

 

Just read something that made me lol, that bran told jon, who in turn would tell dany, which in turn would set the wheel in motion for bran to then take the throne 😂

Just wish he wasnt made a criminal by it, thoigh, i suppose now the unsullied have gone, there's no real reason jon would have to remain a criminal in the rest of westeros' eyes, i mean, theres not really any nights watch left AND we didnt see him take the oath. Think it was kore a knee jerk reaction to the idea of him being banished never to see any of his friends of family again. I hope he does hahaha


Ive calmed down abit about it now. The starks all have a claim over the whole seven kingdoms, including the free folk, and arya is likely to rule whatever she finds west of westeros... maybe?


I am FAR to invested in this stupid show 😂

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I loved the end of Jon's story - fantastic little twist there IMO. It does seem to have been set up for some kind of Stark spin-off series. Indeed, the Stark kids did okay in the end, bless them.

 

Just read something that made me lol, that bran told jon, who in turn would tell dany, which in turn would set the wheel in motion for bran to then take the throne 😂

Just wish he wasnt made a criminal by it, thoigh, i suppose now the unsullied have gone, there's no real reason jon would have to remain a criminal in the rest of westeros' eyes, i mean, theres not really any nights watch left AND we didnt see him take the oath. Think it was kore a knee jerk reaction to the idea of him being banished never to see any of his friends of family again. I hope he does hahaha


Ive calmed down abit about it now. The starks all have a claim over the whole seven kingdoms, including the free folk, and arya is likely to rule whatever she finds west of westeros... maybe?


I am FAR to invested in this stupid show 😂

Well, the way I saw it is that Jon has already disobeyed the edict that he return to the Night’s Watch, because he’s leading the entire population of Castle Black to what will obviously be a new life, albeit it in a pretty crappy climate. I don’t see that as exile at all (at least, not the intended exile) and I think we’re to use our imagination as to what comes next. I’m sure a pardon would be somewhere down the line, too.


Edited to add: there was definitely a missing segment, from the Jon/Dany incident to the meeting of everyone to decide who should be the next king or queen. The Dothraki appear to have done a runner during that time because they were nowhere to be seen, and obviously Jon would either have confessed or been found out. Not knowing anything about these events left me feeling somewhat cheated.

Edited by learningtofly
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I loved the end of Jon's story - fantastic little twist there IMO. It does seem to have been set up for some kind of Stark spin-off series. Indeed, the Stark kids did okay in the end, bless them.

 

Just read something that made me lol, that bran told jon, who in turn would tell dany, which in turn would set the wheel in motion for bran to then take the throne 😂

Just wish he wasnt made a criminal by it, thoigh, i suppose now the unsullied have gone, there's no real reason jon would have to remain a criminal in the rest of westeros' eyes, i mean, theres not really any nights watch left AND we didnt see him take the oath. Think it was kore a knee jerk reaction to the idea of him being banished never to see any of his friends of family again. I hope he does hahaha


Ive calmed down abit about it now. The starks all have a claim over the whole seven kingdoms, including the free folk, and arya is likely to rule whatever she finds west of westeros... maybe?


I am FAR to invested in this stupid show 😂

Well, the way I saw it is that Jon has already disobeyed the edict that he return to the Night’s Watch, because he’s leading the entire population of Castle Black to what will obviously be a new life, albeit it in a pretty crappy climate. I don’t see that as exile at all (at least, not the intended exile) and I think we’re to use our imagination as to what comes next. I’m sure a pardon would be somewhere down the line, too.

 

Now ive calmed down, i am inclined to agree hahaha. I was just like wow, what the hell when i was watching it and i was FURIOUS for jon, who always seems to get the short end of the stick hahaha


Also, just seen this as im knee deep in posts and genuinely laughed out loud

FB_IMG_1558350073039.jpg.e0faba7cfe682ff3965654b69212ebdb.jpg

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