Hard Engine Brake

Hey guys,

I am newbie rider who has recently passed his CBT like a week ago and I’m currently trying to get to grips with my first bike.

I have a Honda CB125R and have taken it out a few times for short rides close to home while learning how this bike operates and building confidence and just generally getting a feel for it. I have noticed my bike has quite a strong Engine brake when letting off the throttle, no matter how slow you roll off, there is a noticeable and sudden deceleration that almost feels like someone has gave the front brake a little squeeze. None of the bikes I used in my CBT has this. I am getting sort of used to it and have come to the conclusion that I how I learnt to ride in my CBT (with the ‘smoother’ bikes’) is not going to work so well on my new bike with such a strong engine brake. I can no longer just roll up to stops by easing off the throttle and down shifting as I slow, eventually stopping in 1st ready to go again. My bike is jerky as hell when I try this, so much so that I’m pulling in the clutch to coast earlier and I’m basically avoiding 1st like the plague.

My main concern though is roundabouts. Old bikes I used on the CBT were smooth when letting off the throttle if needed, no issue. This CB125R however has the ‘front brake’ feel going on which to my understanding is not a good thing to be happening during a roundabout. Does anyone have any tips to be dealing with a strong engine brake?

What’s the best way to tackle a roundabout knowing that simply easing off the throttle a touch is going to instantly apply some not so insignificant ‘stopping’ power?

Thanks guys

It's something you'll get used to and adapting your riding to suit. Try down shifting by block changing gear with the clutch kept in and use more normal braking. Much easier.

Your bike engine brakes better than the training school bikes because it isn't worn out . Just a thought though , you might want to count the teeth on both sprockets to see if anyone has altered the gearing .

Rev matching helps to smooth out your downshifts...once masterd it'll become second nature..

Thanks for the tips guys.

I’m generally ok with shifting through gears (but do need to learn how to blip)

It’s just magnitude of the engine brake that’s got me scratching my head. But yeah, I think the clutch is gonna be my best friend with that. Instead of easing off the throttle in lower gears, I may have to bring the clutch in and also brake if need be. Should be an acceptable substitution right?

It obviously accelerated perfectly, just that deceleration, easing off the throttle causes a jerk, applying throttle to recount for sudden loss of speed causes a jerk, you can imagine what I look like trying to ride slow and smooth in first lol (Like a god damn bobble head!)

At the risk of stating the obvious, you have checked you haven’t got a brake that’s binding?

Hey man,

I have not, wouldn’t know how to be quite honest. But the bike is brand new, around 10-15 miles on the clock, so I kinda of dismissed the idea of it being a mechanical fault as the dealerships only just released it.

Spoke to another person who owns one, he too said he has a similar experience with it, so I guess it’s just how the bike is and I just need to adjust to it

Hey McLovin!

Looking on the Honda website, it appears the new CB125R has ABS. Do you think that's what you are feeling when you are breaking to slow your bike down? I doubt the bikes you rode on your CBT would have that on theirs.

Hey Jackie!

I don’t think it is the ABS, the ABS kicks in at around 13-15 mph I believe, and the same thing happens in first at slower speeds.

That and this deceleration occurs when simply letting off the throttle, not when using the brakes, but it does feel like the front brake is being squeezed a little when it happens. It’s kind of annoying when compared to the experience of the other two bikes I have ridden, but this two were older, and probably did not have EFI (Think this is the cause for the stronger engine brake response when rolling off the throttle)

Yup my wife’s cb125r does the same. After about 100 miles you’ll be used to it and be riding smoothly again.

You don't have to let out the clutch in every gear as you slow to a stop . This might be how your training school taught you but to be honest you can coast to a halt with the clutch pulled in and flick down through all the gears if you want to . I'm not saying this is "correct" but there is more than one way to ride a bike .

You don't have to let out the clutch in every gear as you slow to a stop . This might be how your training school taught you but to be honest you can coast to a halt with the clutch pulled in and flick down through all the gears if you want to . I'm not saying this is "correct" but there is more than one way to ride a bike .

I agree with you fastbob, but on the cb125r what you’re suggesting actually is really difficult! The damn thing refuses to go into first if I’ve coasted up to say a roundabout in 3rd. I get the “—“ reading on the dash gear indicator and I’m stuck. It then either stalls or I manage to mcguiver it into neutral, then let the clutch out and then clutch back in and first. It’s a right pain tbh and coupled with the OPs pointed out engine breaking it makes the bike really hard to ride. Much harder than my mt07. My wife still loves it and it does look cool for a 125 but this issue does my head in.

Sounds as if there might be something wrong with the bike to me.

Whereabouts do you live [mention]Mclovin147[/mention]? You might get someone on here who could drop by and see whether it's running as it should.

Edited to correct the dopey error where I mentioned the wrong person....

Sounds as if there might be something wrong with the bike to me.

Whereabouts do you live @Mclovin147? You might get someone on here who could drop by and see whether it's running as it should.

Edited to correct the dopey error where I mentioned the wrong person....

I'm thinking the same . As it's a brand new bike it could be something simple like a badly adjusted clutch cable .

You don't have to let out the clutch in every gear as you slow to a stop . This might be how your training school taught you but to be honest you can coast to a halt with the clutch pulled in and flick down through all the gears if you want to . I'm not saying this is "correct" but there is more than one way to ride a bike .

 

I agree with you fastbob, but on the cb125r what you’re suggesting actually is really difficult! The damn thing refuses to go into first if I’ve coasted up to say a roundabout in 3rd. I get the “—“ reading on the dash gear indicator and I’m stuck. It then either stalls or I manage to mcguiver it into neutral, then let the clutch out and then clutch back in and first. It’s a right pain tbh and coupled with the OPs pointed out engine breaking it makes the bike really hard to ride. Much harder than my mt07. My wife still loves it and it does look cool for a 125 but this issue does my head in.

I know what you mean . What I do is "blip"the clutch if that makes sense.

I have not ridden many bikes, but even my three Kawasakis had very different engine braking characteristics. Your riding style will adapt. I preferred my twins which had a lot of engine braking.

Hey guys,

Just taken it out again, first time on the main road as I felt like I have more control in second at slow speeds now, so felt a little more comfortable about coming to stops in traffic.

I’m doing as suggested, not dropping to 1st like I did on my CBT bikes, but dropping to second and pulling the clutch in to stop, then switching to first to get going again.

The engine brake is noticeable at higher speeds, got to around 50mph and letting of the throttle does slow it a semi-decent amount, but not as much as slower speeds. It’s manageable.

Although, on my second lap around and A-hole man in an Audi felt as though I pulled out on him (no, just no, I’m still a wimp and don’t take risk to be honest lol) and came RIIIGHT up my arse the whole way, even at ~50mph - He soon learnt what an engine brake on a bike is capable of lol

Do you think it’s worth me calling the dealership and just asking if it is to be expected? I don’t really have anyone reliable near me that I can ask, so the dealership would be my only option really. They have the proper mechanics there and is where il take my bike when it goes into service. I have that £375 Honda service plan thingy m’bob.

EDIT: Yeah I agree with you guys, the clutch is now my best friend. I don’t think I have even used the front brake once since having this bike. It’s been all engine braking assisted by the back brake. I’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not or if it’s harming my bike? In second, I keep the revs as constant as possible (when riding through my street etc) and just tap the back brake if I need to slow for crossings or to check junctions around the houses

Might just be that you're down shifting before you've scrubbed off enough speed. This will all come with experience and the more riding you do the more experience you'll get. Everyday on a bike is a school day.

Dave

Hey guys,

I’m doing as suggested, not dropping to 1st like I did on my CBT bikes, but dropping to second and pulling the clutch in to stop, then switching to first to get going again.

This is what I do. The only other time I might go into first is if I've slowed completely down - like significantly slower than walking pace; you can feel if the bike isn't pulling well when you open the throttle because the gear is too high.

I had / have exactly the same "issue". However mine is on a brand spanking new kwak ninja 650. No matter what gear or what revs (unless you're going to slow for your gear), without throttle input it will engine brake hard. I had to break my engine in so it never went above 4k rpm, and even that felt like it was nose diving when I let off the throttle. I had my much more experienced rider friends check for issues and it's since been in for 2 services since I bought it. It really concerned me as it just didn't feel right and I hated roundabouts for the same reason as you.

What's the problem then? Well it's you

It's just a characteristic of your bike, I don't know enough to say why your training schools bikes didn't do it (mine didn't either, i learned on an er6n, so both bikes were parallel twin), some people have said wear and I guess that could be true. It's just something you need to spend time with and you'll get used to it eventually. It still catches me out sometimes, but i'm quite comfortable with it now. If you're putting too much weight on your arms like I was when I started, it will impede your fine motor control and that makes it harder to be smooth. Once I got out of that habit and started to grip the tank before leaning over, roundabouts were much easier.

Long straight roads like m.ways are the worst as you can't reposition your hand on the throttle without unintentionally scrubbing a load of speed off, and give up trying to wave at anyone with your right hand, that thing has to be glued to the throttle whilst in motion. If you do need to let off the throttle, pull in the clutch if your sitting up straight and it won't cause you any issues (and hopefully no mechanical problems). I'll do this if I really have to free up my right hand. Just be careful when getting back on it that you let the clutch out smoothly and match your revs otherwise engine braking kicks in. Be in the highest gear possible beforehand, easier to rev match at 3k than at 9k in my experience.

It's not all bad though. You'll learn excellent fine motor controls, less brake pad wear and once you're used to it, you can roll up to things, you just have to let off later than you currently are with a much slower smooth roll off. Grip the tank with your knees, keep the weight off your arms and it's perfectly pleasant.

The important thing is you've realised how it could affect other road users and like me you tap the rear brake to let them know you're slowing down. Had a few get a little too close for comfort in my first few months! (and not just car drivers).

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As for the gear selection issue when coasting, yep I had that one too if it's what i'm thinking of. All bikes are the same, although the wear on older bikes may mitigate it somewhat. If you pull the clutch in too early, roll to a stop with it in, then try to change gear, the cogs may not be lined up correctly. Either roll the bike forward or a back a little and try again (hope they now line up close enough), or tease out the clutch until it starts to bite, pull back in and try again (get's things spinning just enough to change gear). If you do coast up to anything, anticipate early and change gears whilst you're rolling before you stop. Once again just something you get used too