Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

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Mississippi Bullfrog
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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by Mississippi Bullfrog » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:07 pm

I was taught that BHP is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you take the wall with you.
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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by Stu » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:08 pm

Mississippi Bullfrog wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:07 pm
I was taught that BHP is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you take the wall with you.
I have known this one for a long time and its the best way to describe it
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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by MikeHorton » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:51 pm

All I can add is when I had my RE Himalayan it didn't get anywhere very fast bit due to the torque I never had to go up and down the gears that much it would still happily chug up the hill in the same gear with the minimum of fuss. I think it depends on what you want to do and find that sweet spot of bhp and torque

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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by The Hitcher » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:18 am

In bike engine terms isn't it more inline 4=BHP,V Twin=Torque.

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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by geofferz » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:24 am

Mississippi Bullfrog wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:07 pm
I was taught that BHP is how fast you hit the wall. Torque is how far you take the wall with you.
I don't think that's true though. If you bit the wall at 50mph regardless of your bhp or torque you'll do x damage and go x far. If you hit it at 100 you'll do more and go farther, again regardless of the stats. You can't go anywhere without rpm, and bhp is torque x rpm. Bhp is the only important figure, according to that video.
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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by geofferz » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:45 am

The Hitcher wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:18 am
In bike engine terms isn't it more inline 4=BHP,V Twin=Torque.
Again the two are linked due to rpm but yes twins are usually torquier due to the size of the cylinder I guess. The twin harley I was referring to has 118ftlb torque which is way more than your V4. So is it in any way faster? Is it f***!! That torque peaks at 3,500 rpm. Harley doesn't even state the bhp but I calculate it to be less than 80. It feels like a bike with less than 80bhp and that's it - the torque figure is irrelevant. Comparatively an r6 has 45ftlb of torque but makes peak bhp of 116bhp and therefore feels and is measurably faster in all ways. Of course you'll have to rev it more, but that's just that.
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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by Mississippi Bullfrog » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:18 am

I don't think there is any hard and fast rule about this. Different engines have different characteristics. My. Bobber is 1200 twin, low on bhp but between 2500-5000 rpm it pulls like a train. On a twisty road coming out of corners iit is a hoot.

I've ridden with guys on bikes with much higher bhp and we keep pace with each other no problem. Going into a bend I have to brake much earlier them because my brakes are nowhere near as powerful, but I make that up coming out of the corner.

We're all happy.
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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by MikeHorton » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:59 am

Mississippi Bullfrog wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:18 am
I don't think there is any hard and fast rule about this. Different engines have different characteristics. My. Bobber is 1200 twin, low on bhp but between 2500-5000 rpm it pulls like a train. On a twisty road coming out of corners iit is a hoot.

I've ridden with guys on bikes with much higher bhp and we keep pace with each other no problem. Going into a bend I have to brake much earlier them because my brakes are nowhere near as powerful, but I make that up coming out of the corner.

We're all happy.
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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by The Hitcher » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:30 pm

geofferz wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:45 am
The Hitcher wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:18 am
In bike engine terms isn't it more inline 4=BHP,V Twin=Torque.
Again the two are linked due to rpm but yes twins are usually torquier due to the size of the cylinder I guess. The twin harley I was referring to has 118ftlb torque which is way more than your V4. So is it in any way faster? Is it f***!! That torque peaks at 3,500 rpm. Harley doesn't even state the bhp but I calculate it to be less than 80. It feels like a bike with less than 80bhp and that's it - the torque figure is irrelevant. Comparatively an r6 has 45ftlb of torque but makes peak bhp of 116bhp and therefore feels and is measurably faster in all ways. Of course you'll have to rev it more, but that's just that.
Yeah, twins don’t like to rev that much overall, it’s definitely easier to get big power out of an inline 4, back in the late 90s/early 00s the superbike rules used to be 750cc 4s and 1000cc twins, the twins needing the capacity advantage to make it a level playing field in terms of power, after that both 4s and twins were allowed 1000cc for a time but the twins were allowed more modifications from standard to compete, then it was revised again to 1000cc 4s and 1200cc twins, in the end Ducati had hit a wall with being able to get anymore out of a V twin engine and had to build a 4.
In terms of road bikes etc twins can be great, including in sports bikes but towards the more performance orientated end where power counts for a lot they can’t compete on equal terms with an inline 4 or V4.
Also you’re right, Harleys don’t make much power at all, they spend all of that energy converting petrol into noise :P, to be fair to them though if I had a long distance ride to do I’d much sooner do it on a Harley than my bike!.

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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by Phill » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:41 pm

I would love to try a big v-twin one day, just to see how different it feels compared to my fazer 600...
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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by fastbob » Fri Jan 10, 2020 6:58 pm

geofferz wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:22 pm
6 minutes in, though the first 2 points are interesting too

I've been saying this for years, contrary to popular belief. Especially when I test rode a Harley with loads of torque but joke low rpm therefore sod bhp - I couldn't feel any torque (or anything, just a horrible huge boat between my legs). Now I know why.
What year and model may I ask ?

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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by Mississippi Bullfrog » Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:17 pm

But he's not saying you can have high torque but low rpm and therefore no bhp.

He's saying torque and bhp are linked. You can't have one without the other. Different engines just deliver their power in different ways. The critical factor is where in the rpm range the usable power is delivered.
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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by Snod Blatter » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:16 pm

Mississippi Bullfrog wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:18 am
I've ridden with guys on bikes with much higher bhp and we keep pace with each other no problem. Going into a bend I have to brake much earlier them because my brakes are nowhere near as powerful, but I make that up coming out of the corner.
But you only keep up because those guys can't ride (i.e. they're in the wrong gear) :? Of course that's the other side of the coin, most people don't want to work that hard so a nice flat torque curve works well for them and feels more powerful. This is surely why most cars are so blandly tuned..
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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by Mississippi Bullfrog » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:41 pm

Snod Blatter wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:16 pm
Mississippi Bullfrog wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:18 am
I've ridden with guys on bikes with much higher bhp and we keep pace with each other no problem. Going into a bend I have to brake much earlier them because my brakes are nowhere near as powerful, but I make that up coming out of the corner.
But you only keep up because those guys can't ride (i.e. they're in the wrong gear) :? Of course that's the other side of the coin, most people don't want to work that hard so a nice flat torque curve works well for them and feels more powerful. This is surely why most cars are so blandly tuned..
'Scuse me!...I am NOT keeping up with them. They are the ones playing catch up. Not that I'm really all that good. Just having a shed load of grunt comes in handy. They've got huge bhp but as you say their gearing means they're only just getting near it by the time the next corner comes along.

'Course I choose the route wisely. No long straights where they'd gobble me up.
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Re: Low bhp yeah but feel the torque bro!

Post by Snod Blatter » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:52 pm

Mississippi Bullfrog wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:41 pm
They've got huge bhp but as you say their gearing means they're only just getting near it by the time the next corner comes along.
They should be 3 gears lower..
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