Are these forks too soft?

so many arguments online about this, but alot who use logic say it doesn't matter how they go in, they will use force the same.

However, the tech guys suggest the spring will displace oil differently. change air space etc..

Although im no mechanic, I look at facts etc. Even if this isn't a Suzuki spring, it looks the same and when in the bike tight coils down with the amount of oil suzuki suggest then the displacement and air gap will be how its meant to be. But if tight goes up, then the air gap will be bigger as the lower spring displaces less oil. Does it really matter though for general street riding? I just want to take corners at an ok pace, no knee down lark. But know I've got some support on the front.

so many arguments online about this, but alot who use logic say it doesn't matter how they go in, they will use force the same.

However, the tech guys suggest the spring will displace oil differently. change air space etc..

Although im no mechanic, I look at facts etc. Even if this isn't a Suzuki spring, it looks the same and when in the bike tight coils down with the amount of oil suzuki suggest then the displacement and air gap will be how its meant to be. But if tight goes up, then the air gap will be bigger as the lower spring displaces less oil. Does it really matter though for general street riding? I just want to take corners at an ok pace, no knee down lark. But know I've got some support on the front.

Thats a very interesting point to be honest

More coils = less air gap so could easily change the way its damping

Try the bike and see how it feels and make your own mind up whether it is right for you or not

so many arguments online about this, but alot who use logic say it doesn't matter how they go in, they will use force the same.

However, the tech guys suggest the spring will displace oil differently. change air space etc..

Although im no mechanic, I look at facts etc. Even if this isn't a Suzuki spring, it looks the same and when in the bike tight coils down with the amount of oil suzuki suggest then the displacement and air gap will be how its meant to be. But if tight goes up, then the air gap will be bigger as the lower spring displaces less oil. Does it really matter though for general street riding? I just want to take corners at an ok pace, no knee down lark. But know I've got some support on the front.

That is what I could find

The more metal you shove into the oil, the higher the oil level will rise. So they recommend the tighter wound end face up to prevent raising the oil level too much above what it would be with the stock springs installed. Obviously, the spring doesn't care - it'll perform exactly the same whichever end goes in first.

The higher the unsprung weight, the less able the suspension is to control it and the slower it responds. So, the correct way to put the spring in is the way that offers the least unsprung weight. This means the light end goes downwards towards the moving end with respect to the chassis.

the stock spring looks the same, according to the manual anyway. plus it only had 300ml of oil in it not 459ml and tight end was at the top.

But with this all together now, it does feel better. sag numbers are the same but i didnt expect that to change much. Wondering if spring other way around with different oil to air ratio will change that.

Problem with my measuring was I don't think the mrs lifted the front enough to get a true measurement.

its 125mm extended. sitting on we got 74 then 76. which is 50mm sag. I can push hard on the front and have a good 20/30mm of fork left.

Stu said to put springs in new which i agree, but cant afford it lol so for now just trying to make little improvements

Just enjoy and ride it, those are not fully adjustable and it will always miss something.

Depends if they are progressive springs or not .

 

Doesn’t matter either way, my Fazer has progressivel forks and when I changed springs they instructed You to turn them opposit to Oem ones.

which may have happened with mine if someone fitted new springs, and they put tight to the top. as these springs need alot of preload Im thinking either they are proper Suzuki or someone put crap new springs in, oil was so black it must have been a while ago.

I wouldn’t worry about coils up or down as long as they are both the same way, I wouldn’t say the Suzuki springs would be anything special, plus they could just have changed oil and put the original springs back but the other way up who knows what others do to bikes before you get them.

I agree. if these were aftermarket springs they would be better than they are. I will run it for a while then do the springs. as long as it doesn't bottom out it should be ok, sag a little high but springs will sort that. abother £85.

well i have to say it felt better. seemed to have a little more to it instead of floppy.

The preload is still at close to max and the bike is using nearly all its travel under hard braking. So springs will be next. The tie wrap thing is more a track based test but i wanted to see how much travel there was under hard braking. (see pic)

had a fright when I set off. I had taken the handlebars off to get access to a tough cap, this, in turn, threw off the clutch a little. first 5 mins out I gave it some throttle through the gears and it got to 6000 and just jumped to 9000. soon calmed down but it shows how messing with things affects others. re adjusted cable when I got home although ran fine when warm.

won't bore you with anymore now and thanks for all the help

That still looks like too much travel to me. Was that just from normal braking? You've pretty much fully compressed them. What air gap did you set them too? What weight are you?

That still looks like too much travel to me. Was that just from normal braking? You've pretty much fully compressed them. What air gap did you set them too? What weight are you?

air gap was 132mm as per manual with 459mm of oil. I was braking hard from over 70 to get that to compress. Im 17st 4lbs. There is half a turn of preload left. I really do need better springs

That still looks like too much travel to me. Was that just from normal braking? You've pretty much fully compressed them. What air gap did you set them too? What weight are you?

 

air gap was 132mm as per manual with 459mm of oil. I was braking hard from over 70 to get that to compress. Im 17st 4lbs. There is half a turn of preload left. I really do need better springs

Not sure if this is your bike but this Suzuki manual says on page 5-19 that a GSF650 needs 502ml and 108mm air gap. And a GSF650s needs 507ml and 104mm air gap.

https://enduro.team/ea/images/7/77/Gsf650s_2005.pdf

That still looks like too much travel to me. Was that just from normal braking? You've pretty much fully compressed them. What air gap did you set them too? What weight are you?

 

air gap was 132mm as per manual with 459mm of oil. I was braking hard from over 70 to get that to compress. Im 17st 4lbs. There is half a turn of preload left. I really do need better springs

 

Not sure if this is your bike but this Suzuki manual says on page 5-19 that a GSF650 needs 502ml and 108mm air gap. And a GSF650s needs 507ml and 104mm air gap.

https://enduro.team/ea/images/7/77/Gsf650s_2005.pdf

bloody hell. I had k7 manual, mine is 2007 but is a k6.. explains why the spring was other way around. and it will take another 50ml of oil. wonder how much difference that will make? Il sort it tomorrow.

That suspension travel is a lot

I don't know much about suspension but I think if the air gap is too big the forks will compress too much because air can compress easily whereas oil can't.

air gap was 132mm as per manual with 459mm of oil. I was braking hard from over 70 to get that to compress. Im 17st 4lbs. There is half a turn of preload left. I really do need better springs

 

Not sure if this is your bike but this Suzuki manual says on page 5-19 that a GSF650 needs 502ml and 108mm air gap. And a GSF650s needs 507ml and 104mm air gap.

https://enduro.team/ea/images/7/77/Gsf650s_2005.pdf

 

bloody hell. I had k7 manual, mine is 2007 but is a k6.. explains why the spring was other way around. and it will take another 50ml of oil. wonder how much difference that will make? Il sort it tomorrow.

That manual is for a 2005 model!

That manual is for a 2005 model!

the 2005 and 2006 are the same, they upgraded in 2007

had them off and swapped the springs around and topped up with oil as per the correct manual. the manuals look so alike, the k7 part was tiny but I guess its a learning curve. It seems the sag is in a better zone but will test better later when Mrs is home.

thanks again all

had a 100mile run today. handles corners a lot better, but.

I can feel every bump. Or I'm overthinking it. lol front preload isn't at max anymore would be too stiff.. Maybe damping is stiff due to new oil.

Even the rear seems to feel stiff and I've not touched it. preload set at 4, goes up to 7. damper set at 2(goes to 4) sag is 45mm so more room to go stiffer.

bandits are a nightmare to get right. I thought I had the hand of suspension etc but now feel lost. I thought preload decided if a soft or hard ride, but now think damping affects that. Surely I don't need to go to 1 on the rear. And i can't really take any oil out the front surely. fml lol.

As it handles better I may need to take the rough with the smooth. A happy medium would be better.

had a 100mile run today. handles corners a lot better, but.

I can feel every bump. Or I'm overthinking it. lol front preload isn't at max anymore would be too stiff.. Maybe damping is stiff due to new oil.

Even the rear seems to feel stiff and I've not touched it. preload set at 4, goes up to 7. damper set at 2(goes to 4) sag is 45mm so more room to go stiffer.

bandits are a nightmare to get right. I thought I had the hand of suspension etc but now feel lost. I thought preload decided if a soft or hard ride, but now think damping affects that. Surely I don't need to go to 1 on the rear. And i can't really take any oil out the front surely. fml lol.

As it handles better I may need to take the rough with the smooth. A happy medium would be better.

Just get a 1250. Better around.

When I got mine the previous owner did lots of 2 up touring. Commuting on rough roads in and out of Coventry it felt like a plank. Smooth roads were fine. So I reset front and rear suspension to factory. Front has stayed at that. Rear preload is 1 click harder. Damping back to standard.

I agree with JRH. I'd put everything back to standard settings and see how that feels

With weighing what you do standard settings I would say would be wrong, test riders who test these bikes don’t usually weigh as much as that so you have to think about adjusting set up for you, if you were 10stone then yes standard would be ok but at 17st that’s a lot more static weight.

the rear is 1 click more than standard which should be 3 and is at 4. ride sag stil about 50mm.

front preload is 3 from max and sag is 45mm. I do think with these kind of bikes the ride has to be more important then sag figures?

i can get sag close but will feel shit. rebound is at 2 on the rear, which is middle. good chance its not even working as should anyway for all i know

the rear is 1 click more than standard which should be 3 and is at 4. ride sag stil about 50mm.

front preload is 3 from max and sag is 45mm. I do think with these kind of bikes the ride has to be more important then sag figures?

i can get sag close but will feel shit. rebound is at 2 on the rear, which is middle. good chance its not even working as should anyway for all i know

When you say it feel shit in what way does it feel shit?

First thing I would be doing is reading as much as you can about suspension setup etc

https://www.themotorbikeforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2763

the rear is 1 click more than standard which should be 3 and is at 4. ride sag stil about 50mm.

front preload is 3 from max and sag is 45mm. I do think with these kind of bikes the ride has to be more important then sag figures?

i can get sag close but will feel shit. rebound is at 2 on the rear, which is middle. good chance its not even working as should anyway for all i know

 

When you say it feel shit in what way does it feel shit?

First thing I would be doing is reading as much as you can about suspension setup etc

https://www.themotorbikeforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2763

Ive read hours of it, and if my bike was one with more range it would be better to dial it in. only 4 stages of rebound is hardly anything to go on compared to a cbr600 etc. As you said before the forks probably need new springs which will probably half preload.

The ride is bumpy, but its like anything when you focus on it everything is exaggerated. I've another set up to try on the rear, and if that doesn't work out il either stick with it or look up a new shock at some point. (and springs)

Half the problem is assuming the shock is any good, and not done in. I could be adjusting damping and the effect not as good as new. Bandits are well known for this and it will be my last one lol

You are pretty big guy and poor 650 is small for you. Or bigger bike or new suspension front and back. Otherwise get the best of what you got and try to enjoy instead to look for negatives. What ever you do on front suspension you have to balance it on the rear. At the end every bike suspension has the limits.